5x20 PPLLC

[jones8907]

Just another table build here people. Figured I would share anyways.

I have seriously been saving up for this for a very long time. One of those save it up and spend it type of deals.

*Component breakdown.*
Purchased/built - precision plasma table design
Purchased/to build - PPLLC Magnum 7 gantry
Will be purchasing - sparks robotics electronics
Will be purchasing - Hypertherm 85 with 50ft machine torch
WIll be purchasing - Air

The biggest concern I am going to have here is the 1/2 crs flat bar in my opinion due to being 12ft long obviously I need them to be 22ft total length long. I got a pretty good deal on getting 24ft long steel from my steel yard due to how much I purchased at one time basically.



So cleaned up the shop first. Dont be jelly over that bicycle.

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I then got all the steel in. 1/8 steel on all the tubes. Except the bottom of the water pan.

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Cut it all to length.

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I then took a selfie while a friend welded one time on it.

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Getting the legs welded up

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More welding.

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More welding fitting....

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Alright...serious point...this was sketchy getting it flipped over. Straight up goofy. Ended up having a friend come over hooked it up to my tractor bucket and just made it work basically.

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These just sucked. Lesson learned....go with something thicker than 16ga whenever putting the bottom of your water pan on. Also manually moving this around is just a pain.

The slats were seconds found in a steel yard and I got all of the slats and quite a few extras for 300 bucks.

Hope you like everyone. If anyone has any headwinds they have struggled with this build please hit me up.

[jones8907]

Another day another good amount of work was completed.

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Notice in the middle of the table the bowing that occurred. I dumped too much heat too fast into the 16ga.

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Slats time...

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More slats.

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Chop saw...made a nice mess... I usually use my milwaukee carbide hand saw. Love that thing.

[acourtjester]

Your going to make that Hypertherm earn its keep, 2 days generating a G-code, place the metal and take 2 day off while cutting
Some guys just like BIG toys Have fun

[JBaumert]

@jones8907 - Why the Spark Robotic vs CandCNC?

[TJS]

Nice build. My water table sheet warped like crazy. If I was to make one again it would be a thicker piece of sheet bent up and just weld the corners. I had to make pull down brackets on my cross members to pull down the warped sheet. Ugh. I think I have a video on this on my YT site. TJS Welding and Fabrication is my user name.

[jones8907]

@acourtjester - Yes I want to put that hypertherm to work buddy!! Literally want to load 2 sheets on and tell it to get to work...as soon as its done i can load another.
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@JBaymert I am going with Spark Robotic over CandCNC. Let me first off be respectful that both I THINK are great systems. Each have downsides honestly from what I have been reading.

Stole some of this info from PPLLC website as well.
Bladerunner uses an Ethernet - positive
controller gives full access to the Z movements - Positive
Router ability - positive but I have no desire to do that
downsides - more difficult to recover from a partially cut part.

The Spark Robotic electronics package uses a USB..I hear this is a negative but whenever I stopped off at their shop he pulled the usb cable mid cut and it carried on.
Easier to click on the picture of the part to recover from a partially cut part.
g-code does not have full control of the Z axis so the control package cannot be used for routing. - As mentioned i dont care about that.

Now the real deal answer. Cost....I have almost final numbers but the CandCNC package was coming in at almost 600 more.

Both use a 16mm ballscrew and linear rail. The Bladerunner uses 20mm chrome hardened shafting with recirculating ball sleeve bearing where the Spark Robotic uses 20mm profile rail with recirculating ball bearing blocks. The torch mount on the Bladerunner is rigid or option magnetic breakaway where the Spark Robotic Z axis uses a collision detection torch mount with proximity sensors.
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@TJS - I will check out your youtube channel as well... Do you have a website too? I am trying to find the happy medium on how much to post and push or whatever. I have a website as well that is really needing some attention endiron.com . I also have a facebook page/instagram that I keep the most up to date honestly. End Iron on the book of faces and end_iron_ on insta. If any of you all want to stay more up todate.
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If you are thinking about commenting and are thinking it might be dumb just do it. Seriously. Never built one of these before people.

I am not going to act like I know it all everyone I assure you. All comments are welcomed and I am open for them as well.

I plan on making my next update whenever I get the gantry in place and done. With kids and life....yeah...

[tcaudle]

it's somewhat semantics . "Collision detection" should detect a collision electronically and give you an option to: Pause with torch on if cutting , Stop and turn off torch, pause and rapid the torch up until it clears and then continue, and do different things if its during a cut or during a rapid. The proximity sensors are basically a different form of breakaway detection and the torch and holder has to be displaced to make it "sense". The magnetic mount works pretty much the same way . Primary difference is that that the design offers no secondary mechanical touch off (no floating torch holder) or backup for the Ohmic Sensing. That Z is not a bad design but there are differences . Hooking the proximity sensor up in series as they advise increases their sensitivity to plasma noise. We are currently working with another table vendor using that same Z design to offer a new Feather Touch Ohmic Sensor module with a dual prox sensor input (powered) that takes one or two prox sensors and up to 5 other inputs at that module (on the Z axis assembly) The Super Z has a built in Ohmic Sensor and multiple switches but that controller has ohmic sensing built in.

It's my understanding the controller is based on the http://proma-elektronika.com/index.php/ ... lectronics in Poland (same company that sells the Proma 150 THC. It's a new product so there is not a lot of information on it. The capabilities of the software are unknown but it appears to be a "stand alone " controller instead of a PC software controller like MACH or LINUXCNC. I think the PC is just used to design and do CAM and spool the cut file via USB which is why it works if you unplug it. It won't have any advanced capabilities (yet) to use the Hypertherm RS485 control port (Option on all Powermax Cutters). If it can store tool info as to the plasma settings that need to change on every different type of material, then it will be a good controller for plasma. It's unclear without full Z control if you can do other types of cutting like Oxy-Fuel or plate marking/engraving and plasma peck marking. I assume using a 5th axis for rotary is not possible.

Keep the forum updated:

[Fjohnson]

Just to clear up few things.

In regards to the touch off sequence the Spark Robotic control package uses a custom firmware with the control card that allows the collision detect sensors in the torch holders to be used as the secondary (backup) material detect sensor.

The control system software is windows 10 based and uses the USB to send down stream individual movement commands to the control box that once completed will send a request for the next cut from the program.

Tom is correct when it comes to interference with running two proximity sensors parallel. It requires very specific wiring to ensure that the sensors are not affected.

As for 4th axis cutting it is in the works and will be available in the near future (upgradeable on all systems)

After using both system (Candcnc and Spark Robotic) I can say they are both valid options for cnc plasma control just with a different approach to how they have you interact with your table.

[jones8907]

Phase 2.

Here we go everyone.

Let me say first off that the biggest pain in the neck SO FAR for me has been making sure these 1/2 CRS are exactly parallel and dead on.

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I checked....checked....and then rechecked everything. Where the 2 butt up to each other is a bit of a pain. Due to CRS warping like crazy which I knew about I made sure to do all I could to make sure that did not happen. And honestly it wasn't that bad but it did have a little. not a a crazy crazy amount like I was totally expecting.

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So fyi stitch it in and grind it barely basically. It works....not the greatest in my opinion but it works.

So my wife and i drilled about a million holes. Did the CRS on the bridgeport and then i started on the end and used the directions in the blue prints to make one side wicked straight...got that gantry tight on it....and then used it as a jig basically to get the other side into action. I still...as ridicules as it may be i still checked the other side with a string...then a laser...

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Cant tell you how nice it is to get some help in the garage.

Whats funny is typing this up its so simple to be like yeah drilled about 10000 holes but the actual physical act is much much more.

Anyways back to the story. I did screw up some of the holes thanks to a few bits that i got that just gave up on me pretty much 20 min into their working life so that was nice. Anyways. If you screw up you can always re drill and retap if you have to. Its not the end of the world.


Here I have the gantry mocked in basically. where i basically cut everything to length to see how far or close it pushed or pulled anything out. You can move the bearings in and out a little for sure to make it where both side are hitting the back stop at the same time.

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Pretty sure i got carried away welding that gantry. should of just welded a little and been done but over the course of weeks id hit it with some weld...then again...check how out of square it would get me and then weld a little more.

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But in the end i got that rail extremely straight for 22 ft long....

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This whole gearing concerned me way more than it should have. Seriously that was easy. LOCTITE BLUE is ordered and not here yet. Once it is that will all come apart after everything is dry fitted with the electronics. Then I will do it all again with Loctite. like....all of it....

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Putting the gearing on the back of the gantry. littleeeee over kill on the clamps i think. Cleaned the crap out of this with rubbing alco....it was like wiping the top of a jiffy jar at one point...it just didn't feel like it was ever coming clean. I was like am I going crazy am i re-wiping this with dirt what the crap. but it eventually cleaned up nice.

The gearing under it went in really well too.

I purchased the electronics those are due to be in in about 3 or 4 weeks.
I went with the Quincy 7.5 hp 80 gallon max unit. That was to be delivered today...then it didnt....maybe tomorrow.

So the new few updates I plan on making are one for air install, electronics, plasma hook up and odds and end more than likely.

Again any comments concerns hit me up.

[jones8907]

@Fjohnson Cant wait to get the control package in good sir and get this going man!!

[Fjohnson]

Looking good man.

Leo was wiring your control box this afternoon. Cant wait to see your table up and running.

[acourtjester]

It may be a little late but for taping straight holes you may look at one of these, great help. It has a "V" bottom for taping on tubing (gun barrels )
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hand-Tap-Guide ... SwUM9cpByb

[jones8907]

Too long no post everyone.

So here we are.

I got the compressor in. Which is an animal. This thing is impressive everyone.

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Also got the airline kit due to me never having that in my garage honestly.

Then I got a call from this fellow.

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Telling me my control package was ready to rock and roll.

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Which didnt take as long as I was expecting. Came in top notch shape really. I did pick it up at his shop due to me only being a couple of hours away. Which was really nice to get to meet the face behind the phone.

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I also have no idea why these images are coming in sideways. So whatever.

[jones8907]

Alright lets get these electronic on this beast.

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This was super straight forward. Everything went on really smooth and basically plug and play. I was like ok where does it get stupid? where will all the bs start to happen really?? It didn't I was so concerned with welding the table up and getting that right that I actually had more issues getting wiring ran for the plasma cutter and the air compressor than anything else (distance and using #6 wire for basically everything).

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The air compressor line was a beast. Seriously....looking back I would of just done the 1/2 inch line. I am happy I guess that I got the 3/4 but dang...it seriously gave me a run for the money.

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To complain about this air line just a little more....I bought 100 ft worth....never would I imagine I would EVER use 100ft in my garage....seriously used every bit of it. I had an old speedair 5hp 60 gallon tank on the side of the garage that was basically abandoned. So i thought it had a hole in it and it was done but after I pulled and hydroed the tank (youtube can help with anything anymore) discovered it was actually in really good shape. So I pressure washed it and got it up to snuff basically and used it as a 60 gallon receiver tank.

[jones8907]

Other things that I figured would not be so bad are some ground rods....Another item that took way more time than it should have. I put in 3 ground rods total. 1 about 5 ft down the table and another at the 15 ft mark and then I put another in the ground specifically for the plasma cutter that I grounded directly to the CRS side. Wish I would of just welded on an ear honestly to attach to.

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You can barely even see them in this photo but non the less they are there thank goodness.

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So I also took the shielded cables and put them in a black MSHA sleeve basically. A mesh sleeve was included but I had this on my shelf from a past life so I just used it. I also put it on the plasma cable line as well.

I also did not get enough plastic tracking for the side rail. It is seriously not long enough at all. So I need to get more of that as well.

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I filled up the table too. Yes....I had one dripping leak....#truth hahaha. No biggie.

It cuts and runs though. I have NO IDEA how to upload a video but you can hit up my instagram at end_iron_ and it has other content as well with all kinds of videos.

Thank you all for checking this out and as always any questions comments concerns hit me up.

Anyone wants to help me fix this images that are turned sideways let me know as well.

[EverydayDiesel]

Did you finish this? I want to go with the same percision plasma gantry and candcnc electronics but I am concerned about the weight of the gantry. If you were to do it over, would you use the same parts?

[jones8907]

@everydaydiesel Heck yeah I finished this table!! love this build and the whole thing was pretty fun.

I did not do CandCNC and would not on my next build after all the horror stories I have read about them. I know the one guy commented above who works for them but honestly the Sparkrobotic control package is amazing.

The weight of the gantry aint crap man. Yes its "heavy" but honestly i have hammered this thing hard for a year and change now. Id suggest using 16ga not 1/8 on the cross bar that is behind your main tube that the cable track rests on. If you wanted to make it lighter you could also take the main cross tube and cut squares in the back of it. I dont see a reason why you would unless you wanted it to look more personalized i guess.

Things I would do differently basic system wise.
Add a welded on ear/tab to attach your earth grounds to.
Put up a guard basically in front of the gantry where it rolls. This is to block slag from falling on the CRS and a wheel hitting it....this has happened to me on the 1300 holes I put into some 3/8 steel for some tables.
Go as wide as possible on the waterbed/downdraft whatever you chose. By doing this you have a better chance at not making a friggin mess in the floor OR put slats covering the space between the side rails and the water bed.
Build a computer station...dont wait...do it now...Have it swivel out of the way and go under or something.
Use a laptop. If someone attempts to ship you a dell with a monitor and all that crap id send it back. Laptop should be perfectly fine.
Get a planetary drive gear box!!! I hate belts. 3:1 i think is out there right now.

Things id like to try on my next build. + a lot from above.
Id go with 8 ft wide and 12 ft long. This would be a shuffle bed design.
I would have the top bed do 3/4 or 1/2 max and the bottom bed would do 3/4 and up.
I would go with some type of downdraft with waterbed design that i have been kicking around in my head. Its something I have been playing with.
I would have either 2 Z's or 1 with oxy/propane and one to accommodate my duramax torch. I am tired of telling people no to 2 inch material cutting.
I would have both beds roll out so i can load them easier with my skidsteer.

Thats all off the top of my head man. I hope that helped. I am working on selling this one to literally build the next one and with a lot of those elements above.

Hit me up with any questions comments and follow my instagram to see it run i have lots of videos on it. I also now have a youtube channel End Iron is my business name.

Thanks! - Tyler

[OffRoadDevilDog]

Great build, thanks for documenting for us. Who makes the gear reduction you went with? Have you decided on a planetary drive yet and found a dealer/builder/whatever? I see tons of NEMA 34 planetary boxes from china but very few with desirable backlash specs listed.

[jones8907]

Thanks man! Sadly the gear reduction I am using is the one that came with it. I am like you I have see a few garbage ones on eBay and other various sites but nothing in mass. It's just a matter of time.

[jones8907]

I finally got around to posting the videos of my build. I have almost all of them done now finally. First one is a voice over.