Sync systems , wheres the proof ?

[Sampson Jones]

In my opinion the sync system is nothing more than hypertherms attempt to stop counterfeit consumables , at the expense of regular customers . At 50.00 per change out of sync consumables v. s. 15.00 per change out of consumables I need to see data proving theres a savings . I’m not buying the time savings of changing consumables from hypertherms marketing dept . A blow back upon pierce ruining a 50.00 cartridge seems ridiculous v.s. 15.00 old style consumables .
I ordered a 65 sync and sent it back , and bought an old style pm65 . Show me the data , convince me its better and I’ll change my mind .
Something tells me the old machines are going to become valuable .

[bwmetalworks]

It's not about cost for everybody, for me it's efficiency. Being able to swap out consumables quickly, less parts and pieces to keep track of and store. The amount of time I save combined with the amount of money I make per cartridge is well worth the $60 for me. This may not be the case for somebody who only does it as a hobby.

[Old Iron]

I agree with Sampson
I do a lot of table work.
I'm also not sold on the cartridge style change out. Seems cost excessive to me.
The time difference is minuscule between the three piece change out then the cartridge.

[djreiswig]

I think it's about the current workforce. Places are hiring less skilled people now, so some are not able to determine what pieces are used up or damaged on their own. They need the machine to tell them when to replace the consumables. And it's a lot easier for them to replace everything than to figure out that the nozzle is bad, but the electrode will work for a while yet.
I look for the aftermarket to step in with a solution. Be that an adapter for the Duramax torch (which I think could be a 3d printed bushing for the connector (I've looked at the schematics, and I don't think it would be difficult to adapt the wiring)), or an adapter for the consumables stack itself. No more old units being produced will definitely make them more valuable. I've got a spare 85 sitting in storage just in case.

[weldguy]

I am not a fan of the Sync system either, too costly and no flexibility in my opinion. djreiswig has a good point about un skilled workforce and in this situation it would be beneficial. I suspect many members of this forum are small shops, many of which may employ people however not likely to operate their cnc plasma table. It sure would be nice to have a choice as to which torch you put on the power source, standard consumable Duramax torch or the Sync torch. I am sure they will lose some business over the Sync system, it has pushed me away to try other brands, however I am sure they have factored that into the decision and Sync is here to stay.

[Sampson Jones]

Yea , I need to see data ,side by side comparison . this would be a good test for "project farm " on you tube . For the same money .I can do 4 complete change outs with the old consumables v.s. one sync cartridge . It takes me about 30 seconds .

[tinspark]

In my opinion the sync system is nothing more than hypertherms attempt to stop counterfeit consumables , at the expense of regular customers .

This is what was at the back of my mind when I seen the new technology. And I still think that it is the reason..
Their bottom line was being crushed by the knock-offs.

I just received their "shaping" Magazine this morning, (article link below) and one article highlighted " counterfeit consumable raids". (pg11)
and another article highlighting the sync cartridges.. I am good with the regular consumables for my 45xp and buy from bakers welding, which uses OEM consumables and am convinced the cheap chinese knockoffs are not worth it. If they stop selling OEM parts for my xp, I will need to decide whether I want to purchase Hypertherms adapter and sync cartridges or just change cutting platforms as many have said that they will do.. Not there yet


Ok this is probably beating a dead horse, but its not really a rant.....
It would be nice if Hypertherm would just say that they made the sync to protect their business model. I could respect that, and maybe be on board with the sync cartridges a little more. and just say that they did it to protect their bottom line instead of almost inferring by some of their past reasons (in articles and posts) for making them that they did it for us dummies who do not know when to change their consumables. and "oh look you get all of this free useful data", which i could give a rats ^** about. And the many shops that I worked where "management" also would never look at the cut data. Our machines always ran because we knew how to keep them running !!

Here is the link to their monthly magazine, where i found the articles about the knockoffs and sync cartridges which came out this morning:
https://s2126756.t.en25.com/e/es?s=2307 ... 77&elqat=1

[tinspark]

I think it's about the current workforce. Places are hiring less skilled people now, so some are not able to determine what pieces are used up or damaged on their own. They need the machine to tell them when to replace the consumables. And it's a lot easier for them to replace everything than to figure out that the nozzle is bad, but the electrode will work for a while yet.
I look for the aftermarket to step in with a solution. Be that an adapter for the Duramax torch (which I think could be a 3d printed bushing for the connector (I've looked at the schematics, and I don't think it would be difficult to adapt the wiring)), or an adapter for the consumables stack itself. No more old units being produced will definitely make them more valuable. I've got a spare 85 sitting in storage just in case.

The new Hypertherm monthly magazine says that they now sell the sync adapter for the powermax 45 xp, 65/85/105

Here is the link. I received their email and magazine this morning:
https://www.calameo.com/read/004348392a ... dx29fm0gVs

[rick_b]

In my opinion the sync system is nothing more than hypertherms attempt to stop counterfeit consumables , at the expense of regular customers . At 50.00 per change out of sync consumables v. s. 15.00 per change out of consumables I need to see data proving theres a savings . I’m not buying the time savings of changing consumables from hypertherms marketing dept . A blow back upon pierce ruining a 50.00 cartridge seems ridiculous v.s. 15.00 old style consumables .
I ordered a 65 sync and sent it back , and bought an old style pm65 . Show me the data , convince me its better and I’ll change my mind .
Something tells me the old machines are going to become valuable .

I am far from a fan of the Sync system either. To me it has been nothing but trouble. If I had my time to do over ”I WOULD NOT BUY IT” And to be honest I think I would even look at other suppliers instead of Hypertherm, they have been so disappointing on this machine. The consumables are way way too costly, the system has very little to no flexibility between it and the Hypertherm edge connect and their Phoenix software the system is a real pain in the A**.
At the moment I have two tables running side by side 1 with the old style consumables and the other with the SYNC and I really do not see any benefit in the SYNC whatsoever to me it is all HYPE!

[adbuch]

I am far from a fan of the Sync system either. To me it has been nothing but trouble. If I had my time to do over ”I WOULD NOT BUY IT” And to be honest I think I would even look at other suppliers instead of Hypertherm, they have been so disappointing on this machine. The consumables are way way too costly, the system has very little to no flexibility between it and the Hypertherm edge connect and their Phoenix software the system is a real pain in the A**.
At the moment I have two tables running side by side 1 with the old style consumables and the other with the SYNC and I really do not see any benefit in the SYNC whatsoever to me it is all HYPE!

I do recall a discussion about your problems in another post, and it sounded to me like it was more a problem with your new table than the sync cutter. I don't personally own a sync, as I bought my Hypertherm cutters before the sync was released. I have read reports from many having great success using the sync cutter and/or sync cartridge with and adapter on the non-sync Duramax torch. With the exception of the sync Finecut problems, which were addressed by Hypertherm resulting in a new revised Finecut cartridge - It has been smooth sailing for most of the actual sync owners. Sorry that you were having so much trouble with your new table/cutter - and hopefully in time you will get it sorted out.

David

[rick_b]

I am far from a fan of the Sync system either. To me it has been nothing but trouble. If I had my time to do over ”I WOULD NOT BUY IT” And to be honest I think I would even look at other suppliers instead of Hypertherm, they have been so disappointing on this machine. The consumables are way way too costly, the system has very little to no flexibility between it and the Hypertherm edge connect and their Phoenix software the system is a real pain in the A**.
At the moment I have two tables running side by side 1 with the old style consumables and the other with the SYNC and I really do not see any benefit in the SYNC whatsoever to me it is all HYPE!

I do recall a discussion about your problems in another post, and it sounded to me like it was more a problem with your new table than the sync cutter. I don't personally own a sync, as I bought my Hypertherm cutters before the sync was released. I have read reports from many having great success using the sync cutter and/or sync cartridge with and adapter on the non-sync Duramax torch. With the exception of the sync Finecut problems, which were addressed by Hypertherm resulting in a new revised Finecut cartridge - It has been smooth sailing for most of the actual sync owners. Sorry that you were having so much trouble with your new table/cutter - and hopefully in time you will get it sorted out.

David

David
Yes, I have had a few discussions here about this new machine but every time there is a problem the machine checks out ok which only leaves the SYNC system.

[rdj357]

SYNC works great. Is it cheaper? I dunno, probably not. Are the cuts dramatically better? No but they at least as good and usually some better.

RIck b's problems are almost certainly the table based on my personal experience and my experience helping others and discussing with others the systems.

[adbuch]

Robert - that was my "take away" exactly. It sounded to me like there were some technical issues with the new table. He should be able to try the Sync cutter on his old table to confirm. I don't remember if he had tried that, or is he had said there was some reason he could not do so.

David

[rdj357]

I don't believe that was a possibility due to the method of connection (serial) to the new table. I'm sure it is not impossible, just beyond what is a reasonable thing for them to try. I hope they find a solution because from what I've experienced, they work very well.

[adbuch]

I don't believe that was a possibility due to the method of connection (serial) to the new table. I'm sure it is not impossible, just beyond what is a reasonable thing for them to try. I hope they find a solution because from what I've experienced, they work very well.

Robert - I meant to test their new Sync cutter on their old table, which as I understand currently works well with their original Powermax 85 or equivalent non-Sync cutter. As far as the new Hypertherm Sync cutters, I had assumed they were compatible with the Plasmacam Torch Control wiring kit, as I see no separate instructions in the Video Manual for the Sync cutters. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also - do the new Sync cutters have the cpc port as the non-Sync cutters do (or have the option to add)? Or is the only means of communication thru the serial port? If only serial, then are they providing the arc voltage or divided arc voltage thru this serial port? And if only serial, how would one connect to the Plasmacam table (or any other table for that matter)?

Thanks,
David

[rdj357]

The SYNC cutter connection to table, be it CPC or serial appears to be exactly the same as the Powermax 65/85 machines. They can be ordered with these already installed or they can be added as a kit(s).

I think the issue came that the old one is the only one that worked well so to try to test with it would stop production completely. I don't recall for sure as I think the wall was reached in that discussion.

[adbuch]

Robert - thanks for that information! I would think that perhaps they might come in "after hours" or on the weekend to do the swap test. But from reading the other thread I suspect they may not have the technical expertise to do these tests without enlisting the services of outside technicians, which may be cost prohibitive for their particular circumstance. It was never clear to me if the OP of the original thread was the owner or simply an operator of the table.

David

[weldguy]

I am far from a fan of the Sync system either. To me it has been nothing but trouble. If I had my time to do over ”I WOULD NOT BUY IT” And to be honest I think I would even look at other suppliers instead of Hypertherm, they have been so disappointing on this machine. The consumables are way way too costly, the system has very little to no flexibility between it and the Hypertherm edge connect and their Phoenix software the system is a real pain in the A**.
At the moment I have two tables running side by side 1 with the old style consumables and the other with the SYNC and I really do not see any benefit in the SYNC whatsoever to me it is all HYPE!

Now there is a real world review, side by side comparison. Not familiar with the other topic outlining the cnc table issues he has had but curious to read it if someone knows where it is.

[rick_b]

[/quote]

Now there is a real world review, side by side comparison. Not familiar with the other topic outlining the cnc table issues he has had but curious to read it if someone knows where it is.
[/quote]


The machines are in Australia. 1 is a 7.5mt x 1.8mt cut with a 105 powermax fitted with the table manufacturer’s controller and software (over 10 years old) the new machine is a Loyalmar 4.8mt x 2mt cut with all Hypertherm from the edge connect to the 105 SYNC.

David, I do have the technical expertise to swap out the 105s and test, the problem I have is if I touch it too much I will lose my warranty and end up out in the cold with no support at all. I started asking questions here because I had truly run out of ideas. As for changing them around, the old machine will not run the new SYNC and the new machine will not run the old powermax plus Robert is right in what he said the old machine is the only one I can rely on right at the moment.

When it comes to the table being a fault, I just do not know every test tells me it’s not (as well as 3 company techs) every suggestion I have been given (and tried) from a few people here still has not helped.

Every day is a new drama, now the Phoenix software has started crashing which means the machine has to be fully shut down and restarted every time to top that off sometimes the program will not restart and has to be left off for anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes before it will restart. Now the consumables have stopped coming up with EOL messages.

[tinspark]

It's not about cost for everybody, for me it's efficiency. Being able to swap out consumables quickly, less parts and pieces to keep track of and store. The I save combined with the amount of money I make per cartridge is well worth the $60 for me. This may not be the case for somebody who only does it as a hobby.

Kinda reminds me of the comments that follow a bad Dr. or business review online.. There always seems to be at least one or two good 5 star reviews from anonymous sources (employee or DR?) that follows a bad review to attempt to clean up an honest and well deserved less than perfect review!

[rdj357]

I'm far from anonymous and I've found them to cut very well with the adapter on my PM85. I find myself using them instead of going back to the regular stack because of ease of use (even if it's just me, there's a time and convenience savings. My time is worth something I hear lol).

Anyway, everyone is going to have to form their own opinions in the long run and share their experiences as best they can.

Rick,
I'm very sorry you're having such a fight with that new table. Too bad there's not a lemon law!

[bwmetalworks]

It's not about cost for everybody, for me it's efficiency. Being able to swap out consumables quickly, less parts and pieces to keep track of and store. The I save combined with the amount of money I make per cartridge is well worth the $60 for me. This may not be the case for somebody who only does it as a hobby.

Kinda reminds me of the comments that follow a bad Dr. or business review online.. There always seems to be at least one or two good 5 star reviews from anonymous sources (employee or DR?) that follows a bad review to attempt to clean up an honest and well deserved less than perfect review!

haha yes exactly I totally agree!

[tinspark]

I'm far from anonymous and I've found them to cut very well with the adapter on my PM85. I find myself using them instead of going back to the regular

I know you aren't anonymous about it. but I was referring to the post after the OP's original comment..
In fact, it is your lack of anonymity with the cartridges that may be only reason that I "may" try the adapter and the sync cartridges if backed into a corner. There is not really anyone here testing or reporting much about them here on this site..
My hunch is that HT will start raising the cost of the stack consumables until it is a wash between the stack or cartridge.. IMO.
At least that is how I would play that game if I were them, which I am not. Or possibly HT will just stop offering stacks altogether.
Or thirdly, things might stay the way they are
I do think there are many that will switch to other brands, as I may if I feel the need in the future... But am not at that bridge, or crossroad yet.
Honestly, worrying too much about plasma consumables is like " majoring in minors", which it really is!!

[adbuch]

Perhaps I should consider stocking up on consumables for my 45xp and 85, particularly the 85 - since they are still making the 45xp. I bought quite a few when I purchased the machines new about 7 years ago. I'm a "hobby guy" and really don't do all that much cnc plasma cutting. But it probably couldn't hurt to have some extras around. Worst case I would step up and purchase the adapter to run the Sync cartridges on my Duramax torches. Since I'm already heavily invested in the Hyperherm cutters, I probably wouldn't be switching to TD just to save money on consumables.

David

[rdj357]

Let's all be honest with ourselves, it is just now starting to be more difficult to get consumables for the old 1xxx series and T series torches that were discontinued years ago. Hypertherm hasn't made a reputation for themselves of a company that is unfair to its customers. It is an ESOP company so employees don't want to hurt owners of the machines, most of them probably have one at home too!

I guess I'm naïve - I don't have a bunker loaded with gold bars and non-perishable food and I won't be stock piling consumables for my pre-sync PM85 either.