Get some...

[cstroke]

Hey Guys,
Not a flame but just a simple observation.
As like many of you I've struggled for many hours to create something. We seem to forget how hard it was to get where we are now.
Take a deep breath when new guys ask for help and in our eyes it looks like they haven't tried sometimes.
We were all where these new guys coming in are.
New guys coming in. Ask for help and be specific what you are having trouble with. If it looks like you are struggling these guys here will bend over backwards to help you.
If you dont want to put in the time to figure it out there are many guys here that are incredible at creating stuff for you.

This should be a learning experience and fun, lets keep it that way.
Hope this lightens things up a bit, not intending to piss on anyone's cheerios.
Now lets make some big pieces of metal small.

[beefy]

What gets some members backs up is when someone disguises their lack of interest in learning by asking for "help", and really it's clear they are just saying can someone just do this for me because I can't be arsed to learn.

It would get rid of a lot of animosity if the OPs would simply say either:

1. I need help with >> HOW << I can do this, i.e. point me to some good instructional videos, tutorials, etc, or I need some specific info.
2. I want a conversion doing and I'm willing to pay.
3. I want a conversion doing, but it's not worth enough for me to pay, I'm not interested in asking how, so I hope someone will do it for me.

Over the years it's been clear some do 3. for years, always requesting "help", and never asking how. They don't say what they've tried, what didn't work, or show their failed attempt. It's basically clear they just want someone to do the hard work for them.

If a beginner is asking how, you know they want to learn. If they are just doing 3. then..................

[robertspark]

This is the sort of thing that winds me up a bit an prompted me to respond accordingly....

Very First post to the forum and asking for a file (before they became a contributing member and paid their $20)

No sign of a HOW .... Or a sign that they actually searched for a file...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30592#p184985

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30573#p184784

At least introduce yourself...

[adbuch]

I paid my $20 just so I could look at the dxf files. I was looking for a particular Ford truck. I did find one that I might use - these are only for gifts for my nephews. I don't make any money from plasma cutting - it's only a "hobby". But I am here to learn. I make my "real money" if you could call it that - here:

https://www.desert-hybrids.com/id63.html
and here:

https://www.ebay.com/str/Desert-Hybrids ... 7675.l2563

David

[adbuch]

Just an old retired guy trying to make a few extra dollars, and maybe learn a few things.
David

[beefy]

I think a big part of this culture we are seeing is that now, the main attraction of this forum is access to files for a $20 yearly fee.

Therefore many (but not all of course) new members are not interested in communicating, sharing knowledge, saying hello, helping out, etc. They just want files or want the above mentioned "help". I have no problem with them asking for files, as that was the attraction of the forum in the first place, and no doubt because they've paid the $20 they will feel it's there right to those files. What I've always wondered is, are new members aware that the files come from other members that kindly donated the drawings after they themselves had paid $20. I've always found it a little unfair that the creators of the drawings got zippo, apart from being proudly badged "contributing members".

I put this culture down to why so many extremely knowledgeable members have left over the years. It used to be a forum of great knowledge, but now it's more about files. I don't think this will change, because my guess is it suits the forum owner, and many of the new members the forum attracts. It's a win win for both those sides.

[djreiswig]

I dispute your opinion that this forum is not a forum of great knowledge. I've been a contributing member for several years and, although I've benefited from the large quantity of excellent artwork, I've benefited much more from the hints, tips and tech support from many of the more experienced users here. I was new to CNC 6 years ago when I bought my table. A friend of a friend of mine told me that this was the place to go to learn how to use it. He was right in so many ways. I'm not a very artistic person, but I hope my technical contributions will someday come close to repaying what I have learned here. Thanks to everyone who gives of their resources to help the newbies.

[beefy]

Fair enough, it's going to be a source of great knowledge for newcomers who are learning.

But comparatively speaking, overall it's nothing compared to what it used to be.

[adbuch]

I joined several years ago, and only started "contributing" in the last several months (maybe the first part of this year). I an envious of those of you who experienced this site in its "heyday". I'm not here for the files, although I am learning quite a bit by studying some of the contributed files.
David

[robertspark]

Maybe your own level of knowledge has changed and what was once new and inspiring is no longer for you.... There are after all only so many ways to do things and only so many questions one can ask

Maybe the users of old have moved on ... Sold up and retired or cannot be bothered to reply to the same questions because research is a lost skill .... Old timers die off too....

Where once CNC was the realm of the few .... Anybody will try to run gcode on anything with varying success and probably little knowledge and background following an inventables or YouTube clip etc

Look at the proliferation of 3d printers...

Maybe focusing on what is wrong with everything and the way things have changed from the "good old days" to what it has become and will become is not helpful to you because it's unlikely to change back .... There are so many avenues of information today .... The easiest way to ride a horse is in the direction it's going after all...

But comparatively speaking, overall it's nothing compared to what it used to be.

Care to post an example?

[adbuch]

Once again,
One down and one to go.
David

[Larry83301]

Maybe your own level of knowledge has changed and what was once new and inspiring is no longer for you.... There are after all only so many ways to do things and only so many questions one can ask

Maybe the users of old have moved on ... Sold up and retired or cannot be bothered to reply to the same questions because research is a lost skill .... Old timers die off too....

Care to post an example?

Having been on the board for awhile, I could give many examples (to much work to look them all up) but the main gripe a lot of the old timers have is that people join and the FIRST thing they want is for someone to convert the picture of their first PAYING job into a DXF that they can cut (with no mistakes) and collect the money for, and oh yea, not to mention they forget to say thanks for the file also. Then the next dozen or so posts are exactly the same - "do this for me so I can get paid". Not only do they not want to learn how to make any files, GOD help you if you make them a file and it has a dropout somewhere in it. Some come on here and GRIPE about a file they downloaded doesn't work for their machine for one reason or another. Perhaps they have a laser and the file was for a router or plasma, or the file was built to be 30" X 48" and their machine is only 24" X 24" and the file wouldn't fit. More and more people don't want to do the work or put in the time and effort to look things up or learn how to do it, they just ask and wait for someone to do it for them. I see this same thing on many boards, people wouldn't even use the SEARCH function, they just post "find this for me"

Just my opinion, not that of the board. (maybe)


Larry

[lockeyone]

And it seems most don't show a picture of the finished work.

[robertspark]

Once again,
One down and one to go.
David

?

[robertspark]

If something is for free then don't moan about it not working...

[cstroke]

I didnt post this to cause a stir, more of a be patient with these guys..
I havent posted many files at all despite being here for a long time. Quite honestly my art was far from good enough to share.
This is a great forum and even though I'm mostly silent I as many others like me appreciate what you guys do.

[beefy]

Maybe focusing on what is wrong with everything and the way things have changed from the "good old days" to what it has become and will become is not helpful to you because it's unlikely to change back .... There are so many avenues of information today .... The easiest way to ride a horse is in the direction it's going after all...

But comparatively speaking, overall it's nothing compared to what it used to be.

Care to post an example?

I completely disagree Rob. I believe my repeated "bitching" about all the lazy freeloaders over the years (and surviving the many attacks I subsequently received), and finally a few other members seeing the same crap, led to the new fair forum rules for the DXF conversion area. And that seemed not so long ago.

And do you remember that LizardKing who ripped off loads of members here, charging quite a lot of members for the "right" to use a truncated icosahedron shape (soccer ball firepit). Lots of happy happy people saying ooohh and aahhh, yet not me, I was the one that started focusing on "what is wrong". I started the questioning about how could he possibly have the rights (and charge people for it) to a shape that occurs in nature. The resulting thread was long and vicious, but finally it was concluded that Lizard King was fraudulently taking peoples money. I did some quick maths based on the amount of people I think bought his "rights" and I think he pocketed well over 10K from that scam.

As I've read in many books, words along the lines of "change comes from dissatisfaction" have often been encountered. I wonder why. Or another saying is "evil survives when good people do nothing". Now no, I'm not saying I'm good (I'm definitely not) and others are evil, just using a well known phrase to illustrate a point.

In my experience, focusing on what is wrong can certainly bring about good change.

And no, I'm not going to get into the nitty picky, go back in time looking for individual threads, etc to prove my point. That's OK for people like yourself that spend a lot more time than me on the forums but I've got other things to do as well.

[tinspark]

Just an old retired guy trying to make a few extra dollars, and maybe learn a few things.
David

Hey David,
Just curious what trade that did you retire from?

[adbuch]

Just an old retired guy trying to make a few extra dollars, and maybe learn a few things.
David

Hey David,
Just curious what trade that did you retire from?

Hi Doug,
Mechanical Engineering and Electrical Engineering. I "retired" in 2000 (at age 50) from the University of Arizona Space Sciences Department - Lunar & Planetary Lab. My first job there was as an Astronomical Instrumentation Specialist working with CCD camera systems for some of the Astronomers - mainly comets. Then I spent a number of years working on projects like the Mars Rover, Cassini mission to Saturn, NGST (next generation space telescope), and other projects. I designed and built mechanical ground support equipment for the Huygens Probe, facilitated the manufacture of mechanical flight parts for the DISR (Descent Imager/Spectral Radiometer) that flew on the Cassini spacecraft and ultimately ended up on the surface of Titan (one of Saturn's moons). I've been "self employed" for the last 20 years - working out of my home shop.
David

[adbuch]

And do you remember that LizardKing who ripped off loads of members here, charging quite a lot of members for the "right" to use a truncated icosahedron shape (soccer ball firepit). Lots of happy happy people saying ooohh and aahhh, yet not me, I was the one that started focusing on "what is wrong". I started the questioning about how could he possibly have the rights (and charge people for it) to a shape that occurs in nature. The resulting thread was long and vicious, but finally it was concluded that Lizard King was fraudulently taking peoples money. I did some quick maths based on the amount of people I think bought his "rights" and I think he pocketed well over 10K from that scam.

Keith,
That's interesting. One of the members on the Plasmacam Owner's Community Forum named Louis does post lots of photos of fancy fire pits, and I do believe that he is referred to as the Lizard King. He used to solicit members to join his organization to get access to his files, but when I discovered that the cost to join was several hundred dollars - I said "No Thank You". He does some nice work, but I think I could do my own design - if I really wanted one of those many-sided fire pits.
David

fire pit.jpg

[tinspark]

Just an old retired guy trying to make a few extra dollars, and maybe learn a few things.
David

Hey David,
Just curious what trade that did you retire from?

Hi Doug,
Mechanical Engineering and Electrical Engineering. I "retired" in 2000 (at age 50) from the University of Arizona Space Sciences Department - Lunar & Planetary Lab. My first job there was as an Astronomical Instrumentation Specialist working with CCD camera systems for some of the Astronomers - mainly comets. Then I spent a number of years working on projects like the Mars Rover, Cassini mission to Saturn, NGST (next generation space telescope), and other projects. I designed and built mechanical ground support equipment for the Huygens Probe, facilitated the manufacture of mechanical flight parts for the DISR (Descent Imager/Spectral Radiometer) that flew on the Cassini spacecraft and ultimately ended up on the surface of Titan (one of Saturn's moons). I've been "self employed" for the last 20 years - working out of my home shop.
David

Holy C%^p David, that's some serious stuff. This plasma stuff is like child's play to you then. Very impressive.
I worked with many mechanical engineers, learned a bunch from them at the few shops I have worked at when I was a union sheet metal worker and retired at age 52 a few years back, but man! You have done some amazing stuff there!! Very impressive career man!!

[robertspark]

And do you remember that LizardKing who ripped off loads of members here, charging quite a lot of members for the "right" to use a truncated icosahedron shape (soccer ball firepit).

No, I'm not into fire pits, but it sounds a funny story I've not followed, I'll look it up thanks.

Despite downloading quite a number of files from the forum, there are very few I've actually made and none I've ever sold, and wouldn't pay for them as plasma is just a hobby one of my many.

I suffer from depression and anxiety and have been medicated as such for years now with no sign of an end to it. Hence I try to only get involved with what is changeable by me.... What others do is up to them

The world is full of freeloaders, as I get older I get wiser to it and sit back and spectate as it's interesting to watch.... I cannot see it changing, but it would be a nice aspiration.... Where things once took days to create and design we can now do it in minutes... And with the ease of copy + paste that becomes easier.... And when you learn how to use Google and many of the other search engines to find something that task is even easier... And you don't have to learn anything but how to use a search string...

I don't think there were less of them before... They probably were not all so internet savvy... Plus there was probably less for them to copy and paste about...

I guess I like to find quotes that allow me to ignore things that I have no control over really and put some perspective on things with what I can really change which is just me and what I do and engage with others. It is very difficult for me not [to try] to micromanage everything.

A nice quote I read from an interview with the Dalai Lama recently :
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... s-53028343

"If there is a way to overcome your situation then make effort, no need to worry," he explains.

"If truly there is no way to overcome then it is no use to worry, you can't do anything. You have to accept it, like old age."

[robertspark]

Mechanical Engineering and Electrical Engineering. I "retired" in 2000 (at age 50) from the University of Arizona Space Sciences Department - Lunar & Planetary Lab. My first job there was as an Astronomical Instrumentation Specialist working with CCD camera systems for some of the Astronomers - mainly comets. Then I spent a number of years working on projects like the Mars Rover, Cassini mission to Saturn, NGST (next generation space telescope), and other projects. I designed and built mechanical ground support equipment for the Huygens Probe, facilitated the manufacture of mechanical flight parts for the DISR (Descent Imager/Spectral Radiometer) that flew on the Cassini spacecraft and ultimately ended up on the surface of Titan (one of Saturn's moons). I've been "self employed" for the last 20 years - working out of my home shop.
David

Very nice, interesting and varied

[acourtjester]

Very interesting interview, there is a similar prayer "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference"

[abmetal]

As I've mentioned in previous posts I'm amazed at the talent and knowledge on this forum. I've been a member since 2011 and I still look forward to my "daily fix" of wisdom. I've been a fabricator for over 40 years and sometimes after reading about what some of the members design and build, it makes me feel dumber than a box of rocks. Keep up the good work and don't ever quit posting because you think people don't appreciate it. Folks like myself do appreciate it.

Allen