Customer not interested - fair price ??

[beefy]

This guy was hinting like hell at getting a "good price" for this cut. He originally called me a couple of months ago about doing some cutting then never called back. A couple of days ago he called again and said he'd been doing the cuts himself and drilling the holes, and it was "getting old"

FULL NESTED SHEET.png

PARTIALLY NESTED SHEET.png

The sheet is 10mm thick mild steel and is a standard 4 x 8 sheet (or 2440 x 1220 metric).

Sheetcam details on fully nested sheet are:
* 347 pierces
* Just under 2 hours job time
* Total cut distance 71,500 mm

and on the partially nested sheet:
* 47 pierces
* About 20 mins job time
* Total cut distance 20,700 mm

I gave him a price of $500 cash. This included cad/cam design time to get his pencil drawings of each part to a ready to cut nested machine file, and picking up the steel from the supplier which would be about 1 hr, 20 mins round trip. Price did not include steel cost.

He didn't reply to my message so I'm guessing it wasn't cheap enough for him. Do you guys think it was fair.

Keith.

[acourtjester]

Walk away for him he will never be pleased if you have run the project through the pricing spread sheet and that is your figure stick with it.
If he is tired of doing it he know what it takes and wants you to deal with it for a cheap price.

[exapprentice]

Hi Kieth

No matter what some people will always want it cheaper even if it is a fair price.
Looking at the layouts and your numbers ball park'ish its about $10 per item there or there about's, he probably thinks he can do it cheaper himself.
Personally I wouldn't stress about it, let him do it manually, obviously he dose'nt want to or cant afford to spend the money.
Some people are just messer's.
Even if I was was desperate for work, the way he had gone about this job, I think I would still walk away and let him get on with it

I am sure if you did do the job he would find something wrong or be really picky

only my personnal opinion

[tnbndr]

It appears he is producing parts for a product of some sort. He's making money on his end, you are allowed to make money on yours.
Your price is your price, stick by it. You have nothing to prove to him or owe him anything so that he saves time and makes more money while you suffer.
I agree with acourtjester, only don't walk, RUN!!!

[exapprentice]

Hi Tom

I was writing my reply and submitted it, only to see your write up appear great minds must think alike
My sentiments exactly

[gamble]

It's not bad. That's like $5 a part
Plus you have to clean then all up.
Sucks you have design time into it.

[motoguy]

If there's one thing I've really learned from you guys, it's that "It's ok to fire a bad customer, or refuse one that will end up that way." Thanks for all your info.

[beefy]

Thanks very much lads.

I know this guy from an excavator / bobcat job I was doing at the place where he works. Me and him worked together for several days. He generally seemed like a really nice guy and we were both "workshop / metal lads" so we got along quite well. However, I did notice one day that he wanted everything his way and was happy for me to lose money when he just expected me to be available with my machinery, yet wasn't sure if he needed me. I told him I need to look for work if he doesn't even know if he wants me but it seemed to make no difference.

The steel parts are for a 36 metre X 12 metre shed he's building on his property (acreage no doubt with a shed that big). He was dangling the carrot in front of me saying maybe we can work something out down the track and I can get set up in his new shed. I took that with a pinch of salt though, I think everything would benefit him more than me, and I don't like the idea of being able to be kicked out at a moments notice when we don't agree on something (quite likely).

I was initially going to charge only $400 then put a few figures into a spreadsheet as a rough add up:

Cad and cam work 50
Collect steel (petrol is in this) 60
Material handling 50
Table operating time (about 3 hrs,
including pause time for tip ups etc) 300
Post cut part removal from water tray 20
Scrap cut up and disposal 20

As you can see, there's no dross cleanup and part stacking time in those figures.

I did spend a whole day on the cad cam side of things but that was my fault because I was trying all sorts of ways of making something work in sheetcam. I finally gave in and asked Les and he told me how to do it. So now I'll probably do the whole cad cam work in an hour.

Exapprentice, it actually was going through my head that this guy may get the jitters when it came to paying for the parts and start saying this or that is no good. It may be a blessing the job didn't happen.

Acourtjester & Dennis, I think you are right and I will keep this "customer" at arms length in the future. I guess these experiences are all part of us learning to read people. It's also a reinforcing reason to get that deposit especially before you go and buy the steel.

Keith.

[flimmy]

I'd also get half upfront before you start cutting.

[vmax549]

When deciding to do a job like this there are several things to consider. #1 is how is your hole quality ? This part depends on a fairly accurate and to proper size hole to be able to be used. Other wise he will have to spend time on redrilling the holes so the bolts will fit.

#2 as a 1 man shop can you safely handle the weight of a sheet that size ?

#3 there is a lot of waste left over (;-) Somebody ends up paying for it.

#4 low end tables normally do not do mass nested parts well. 1 bad pierce that damages the tip can RUIN a lot of downstream parts before you know it. Then holes are not straight or round ??

In this situation I would consider using joints of plate wide enough to cut teh part 10mm X ???? . That would make it easier for you to handle and a lot easier to draw as you would only need to draw 1 example of each peace. I would give you a macro that would auto index your cuts either crosswise on the table or lengthwise. Also this way most of you outside cuts could be done as edge starts and That is a lot easier on teh torch with ess posible damage from a bad pierce. Also less cutting time overall as with most of the parts one edge does not need cutting.

Drop a simple jig on teh table to keep tthe plate straight and teh X0Y0 point exactly the same each time. Then simply slide the plate after each string of partes are cut. And then push teh button again. Each cut part would be asy to get to and you could be grinding the edges while the next plate cuts. Just set up your grinding table next to the machine. OR add a grinding station to your machine. You can build a simple grinding station that has a vertical grinder with a simple cupped wheel .

Just a thought, (;-) TP

[beefy]

Thanks heaps Terry,

fantastic info (as usual, that's why I call you "My Guru"), that is another one for my archives.

Don't know how good I can get holes yet. I was actually going to tell the guy I'll start experimenting on some 10mm bits of steel IF he accepted my quote.

Ha ha, handling a full sheet of 10mm. I normally manage full sheets of 3mm manually (always resulting in lumbar disk compression it seems) so I did not overlook handling more than 3 times the weight and had some creative ideas in mind, with a little help from my mini excavator. Down the track I'd love to have a submergible mechanism between the table slats that carries stainless ball rollers.

I told the guy I next had to look around for a partial sheet of steel so I could add the steel cost (without any markup). But as expected he didn't reply so that saved me a job.

Keith.

[SeanP]

I'll not get involved with pricing, still can't get my own right yet
Thought you might like to see my latest creation for moving sheets, works a treat, it will drag a 1/2'' sheet off the truck and push off onto the table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYwryq0O-q4

I cut the washers, holes and slots in the box section on the table.

[motoguy]

Love the idea! Thanks!

[acourtjester]

Sean P you come up with the neatest toys
I bet you strut around you shop like a big rooster singing

"Help I don't need no stinking help"

Keep posting it helps all us one man shops

[SeanP]

Sean P you come up with the neatest toys
I bet you strut around you shop like a big rooster singing

"Help I don't need no stinking help"

Keep posting it helps all us one man shops

Lol, was thinking about a hoist, but that was a lot of work and guessing, fork lift would have been nice but pricey, so I went for the easiest cheapest option, it will do me for a while.

[exapprentice]

Sean

I love it , fancy spending a few days over here and making some toys for me

[beefy]

Good one Sean.

It almost looks like you built your table to suit the height of your vehicle tray. Or did you modify your vehicle to suit....................

Keith.

[SeanP]

Good one Sean.

Or did you modify your vehicle to suit....................

Keith.

Ha ha did I

[beefy]

What you making there Sean, are you getting tired of plasma and starting food delivery LOL.

Hey did you cut your YT video short when you hit the difficult bit (getting the roller tube out from under the sheet). I had to pick on something, everything else was too perfect, especially the auto wood ejection system as the plate came off the vehicle. I know you carefully designed that bit.

Keith

[muzza]

everything else was too perfect, especially the auto wood ejection system as the plate came off the vehicle. I know you carefully designed that bit.

Keith

precision engineering