Don't you just love...

[kkroger]

When someone contacts you about making something...
They have a specific FONT that they want to use but won't say what it is...
They want it to say something specific but they won't say what that is...
They want it to be a specific size but they won't say what that is...
They want it to be finished in some way but they won't say what that is...
Made from something.... BUT they won't say what that is...
Then can't understand why you can't give them a cost?????

[abmetal]

Sounds like the typical customer. We had a person call and want a Christmas gift cut for her dad but didn't have any idea what he'd like, just wanted us to cut something. We told her she'd need to come by and pick out something but... she never did show up.

Allen

[Corfabrication]

That's the people you require a 100% deposit once you get them to commit to a piece.

[beefy]

Please tell me that is not a typical customer, you'd have to be a special person to put up with that very much.

I knew a guy who's Dad sold concrete water tanks, custom made. He fell sick and spent a few weeks in hospital. During that time he had time to dwell on how he was doing business, and decided to change his tactics. He worked out a bunch of fixed designs with fixed prices, and totally stopped the custom stuff. He lost some sales but not too much, and his business was a dream from that point. He said the custom design stuff was extremely stressful, customers not really knowing or understanding what they wanted, or changing their minds down the track, or claiming afterwards that the design is not the way they wanted it.

His words to his son about business were, "The main problem with business is the customers"

My plan is to "attempt" the fixed product method and see if I can pull it off. I realise it may not be that successful and custom design may be a necessity. Designers and architects get paid big money but it often seems we are supposed to play that role for free, then the customer gets a price for a bit of cut metal.

[grindergary]

When someone contacts you about making something...
They have a specific FONT that they want to use but won't say what it is...
They want it to say something specific but they won't say what that is...
They want it to be a specific size but they won't say what that is...
They want it to be finished in some way but they won't say what that is...
Made from something.... BUT they won't say what that is...
Then can't understand why you can't give them a cost?????

Yes sir, you hit the nail right on the head.

I want to try products that are not customized unless they know exactly what they want.

Gary

[jessechop]

Yep, I am new to this and I all ready am fustrated by that. Off the shelf stuff is my main seller now

[wickedinhere]

Yeah people that want a custom sign but cant give you any idea of what they want are the worst. I just tell them that i just cant waste my time coming up with designs that they wont like. I have found that people like this are just tire kickers and time wasters. I had a guy that wanted me to cut him a 46 inch sign and powder coat then he would look at it to see if he wanted it. I told him if i did that i would be out of business then i hung up on him. I get paid 100% before i start on any sign.

[Redneck]

Yes, those customers can be frustrating, but the fact is, they can still be paying customers. A huge part of this business is that we have to sell ourselves and our product. When I get one that wants some kind of sign, but they don't know for sure what, it is my job to lead them in conversation and questioning, to help them figure that out.

Ask them if the sign is for them or a gift for a friend. Ask them about their interests....sports, kids, dogs, etc. Find out where the sign will be displayed. Help them narrow down what they would like the sign to be. Yes it takes a little time, but usually if I spend some time with them, it helps build the confidence that they have in me, and they end up with a sign that they are proud to display.

This time spent can also help me determine if they are going to be a PITA, and maybe I'll add a little PITA tax to the price , but generally most people just need a little help deciding what they want, ad it is our job to to lead them there.

And yes, I almost always get 100% of the money up front for a custom sign.

Just my 2¢

[Capstone]

Imagine how much Tattoo artists must get frustrated?! I'm taking a hybrid approach.

I am working on a catalog of stock items which can be retro-fitted with custom numbering and letters; sorta along the lines of the whole "Make your own Jewelry" kiosks that are popular at resorts and theme parks, where customers pick their design elements from a small catalog of items.

Give the customer the perception of "custom" but keep them in a profit-box with limited choices which only require three or four decision gates to get to a "custom" result. When the customer buys all the pieces pre-finished at the event, but has them assembled by you on site as they wait, it's a win-win.

I think ultimately, that's where our industry is going.

[AnotherDano]

I use the old adage; It's easier to criticize than create.
If they don't know what they want, I come up with something - anything - to show them.
They can then tell me that they they want a round rather than the rectangular sign I showed them.
Then they can tell me that the deer isn't what they had in mind,,,, do I have a Bear?

Give them something to work with and get their mental processes working.

[wickedinhere]

Yep i always give them something to look at then we go from there. I had a woman contact me about a 12 foot sign for over her home entrance. I drew up the sign and had several hours in it then she said her husband in now involved and and is getting another sign company to draw up a sign. I said no problem, she then sent me a pic of the sign which was completely different than what we had talked about. THe sign was now 4 foot instead of 12 and has so much going on it looks horrible. She then wanted me to take it and make it BETTER LOOKING i told here at 4 foot it was impossible to make it look good. A week later she emails me a completely different sign and wanted to know if i could take it and add all of her stuff to it. I never responded.

[Corfabrication]

Yep i always give them something to look at then we go from there. I had a woman contact me about a 12 foot sign for over her home entrance. I drew up the sign and had several hours in it then she said her husband in now involved and and is getting another sign company to draw up a sign. I said no problem, she then sent me a pic of the sign which was completely different than what we had talked about. THe sign was now 4 foot instead of 12 and has so much going on it looks horrible. She then wanted me to take it and make it BETTER LOOKING i told here at 4 foot it was impossible to make it look good. A week later she emails me a completely different sign and wanted to know if i could take it and add all of her stuff to it. I never responded.

sorry ma'am you have been let go from our customer base.
Haha

[MetalheadRK]

I seem to have the opposite problem. Clients contact me with very specific information. I bust my butt to make it exactly as specified then send them a drawing. Then they decide they want a different font, etc. Drives me crazy after spending 2 hours on the dang project to have them change something major. I make the changes and then never hear back from them. Wasting my freaking time AAAAHHGHHGHHGH. Such is life I guess.

[beefy]

Yes, those customers can be frustrating, but the fact is, they can still be paying customers. A huge part of this business is that we have to sell ourselves and our product. When I get one that wants some kind of sign, but they don't know for sure what, it is my job to lead them in conversation and questioning, to help them figure that out.

Ask them if the sign is for them or a gift for a friend. Ask them about their interests....sports, kids, dogs, etc. Find out where the sign will be displayed. Help them narrow down what they would like the sign to be. Yes it takes a little time, but usually if I spend some time with them, it helps build the confidence that they have in me, and they end up with a sign that they are proud to display.

This time spent can also help me determine if they are going to be a PITA, and maybe I'll add a little PITA tax to the price , but generally most people just need a little help deciding what they want, ad it is our job to to lead them there.

And yes, I almost always get 100% of the money up front for a custom sign.

Just my 2¢

Redneck,

that sounds great in theory and truly sounds like what service maybe means - SERVING. I certainly agree providing what we get back serves us just as good.

Everything you said seems to be for the benefit of the customer. I'm in a completely different industry at present but one thing I have learnt is sack customers that are cheap, timewasters, make the time/effort to profit ratio terrible, etc. I think that's what this thread is mainly about. Damn, I've felt a lot better for sacking those customers, even if it's cost me some sales. We're in business to make a certain amount of dollars for a certain amount of time/effort/cash investment. We're not in business just to make a sale at whatever cost, unless a future reward for US can stem from that.

For example, I sometimes hear that dealing with a certain indecisive, time consuming customers has led to some good follow up sales, but is that the exception rather than the norm.

I've tried the great service thing, spending lots of time talking with customers about a POTENTIAL job. I get the feeling they quite like me afterwards but not enough to use me if the cost is more than they wanted or someone can do the job cheaper. My experience has been that overall, customers just want want want. I don't even advertise any more because all I seem to do is run around looking at jobs, "chatting" about the job, giving them an education in the process. Many in my industry have had the same experience, and it seems something the desperate guys do.

Guess after my experience I'm looking for good solid reasons why it's beneficial to spend my valuable time with customers who have no idea what they want in the first place. Does it have an indirect way of paying off in the long term or does it just lead to word of mouth bringing you more of those types of customers.

Keith

[Redneck]

Redneck,

that sounds great in theory and truly sounds like what service maybe means - SERVING. I certainly agree providing what we get back serves us just as good.

Everything you said seems to be for the benefit of the customer. I'm in a completely different industry at present but one thing I have learnt is sack customers that are cheap, timewasters, make the time/effort to profit ratio terrible, etc. I think that's what this thread is mainly about. Damn, I've felt a lot better for sacking those customers, even if it's cost me some sales. We're in business to make a certain amount of dollars for a certain amount of time/effort/cash investment. We're not in business just to make a sale at whatever cost, unless a future reward for US can stem from that.

For example, I sometimes hear that dealing with a certain indecisive, time consuming customers has led to some good follow up sales, but is that the exception rather than the norm.

I've tried the great service thing, spending lots of time talking with customers about a POTENTIAL job. I get the feeling they quite like me afterwards but not enough to use me if the cost is more than they wanted or someone can do the job cheaper. My experience has been that overall, customers just want want want. I don't even advertise any more because all I seem to do is run around looking at jobs, "chatting" about the job, giving them an education in the process. Many in my industry have had the same experience, and it seems something the desperate guys do.

Guess after my experience I'm looking for good solid reasons why it's beneficial to spend my valuable time with customers who have no idea what they want in the first place. Does it have an indirect way of paying off in the long term or does it just lead to word of mouth bringing you more of those types of customers.

Keith

Hi Keith, I know you are in a totally different area, and you have mentioned several times how hard it is for you there. So, I may handle the situation there different than here too.

With that said, I try very hard to not waste time "chatting" about the sign they may want. Yes, our time is valuable. I try to look at it as a partner type of relationship, rather than adversarial. If we work together on the sign idea, we can both win. It is not my goal to make a sale at "any cost". I do try to lead and question them in the conversation and determine what they want....and then, once I have a pretty good idea what that is, I ask for the order.......often they will say yes and write a check on the spot.....but not always of course. Yes, we do get the customer that really does have no idea what they want, and if I cannot figure out what they want, I do politely break rapport and leave the ball in their court. I doubt I ever hear from them again.

Over the years, prior to starting this business, I had experience in and out of sales positions several times. The short list of the keys to sales is to identify a need, propose a solution, and ask them to try it.

Best regards to you Keith, I hope things get better.

[beefy]

Cheers Redneck,

appreciate the feedback.

Yes, sales is one hell of a valuable skill to have in business. I wish I could be a fly on the wall when you are dealing with a customer, just to learn a few pointers from you

Keith.

[Joe Jones]

It has been long understood that "People" are the hardest tool to work with.