Patent your product?

[awt112]

I would like to know at what point do you think a person should apply for a Patent for a product they have designed, built, tested, and searched the internet finding no other product that is even close to the same? I have sold several of these but, am now getting worried because 2 large dealers have confronted me about my idea and design, I bluffed by telling them it was patent pending.. I have taken photo's of every process of the design, cutting & welding also some video of the machine cutting the product out. Everything I read tells me it's going to be expensive for a patent lawyer, and the only way I'm going to able to come up with that money is by selling the item I have made. Am I safe in doing so? I figure there have got to be a few folks on here that have dealt with this before. Any advice would be great.

Thank You
Adam

[illusivedf]

There is some kind of 1 year marketing leeway, take a look at the US patent office site. I have a product I designed and sold for a couple years (could never afford a patent) had some guy working at some industrial shop use his work laser to copy mine and has been selling them for about half my price. Needless to say I'm having trouble selling my product now because I don't want to lower my price that far as I am charging a fair market value and he is just trying to make beer money on the side.

[muzza]

Another thing to remember that's often pointed out is that any sort of protection is only worth as much as you are prepared to spend pursuing any breaches. A patent is pointless if you aren't prepared to act on those who copy, not if but when.

It's generally the first question a patents lawyer will ask you.
Murray

[tnbndr]

Take all your design information, etc. put it in an envelope and mail it to yourself. When it arrives do not open it.
The post mark date will prove later the date of your design, until you get your patent if you decide to go that route.
Like Muzza said, a patent is only as good as the amount of time you wish to spend chasing down offenders.
I would just make as many as you can and sell them and get your money before the copies start coming out.

[illusivedf]

That don't really do anything as far as holding any legal ground. I think there is even a mention about it on the US patent site.

[CNCCAJUN]

Personally I would make all I could of whatever it is . . . Market like crazy . . .

Always downplay your success, whine that "You Think It Is A Great Idea", but you did not realize how limited the market was . . .

Do not offer or attempt to offer your product to a large retailer, i.e. WALMART, LOWES, HOME DEPOT . . . guaranteed import copy will follow.

Stay away from companies that tell you they will help you patent you invention. . . they are nothing but scavengers who sell your ideas out the back door while charging you for patent development that never quite happens . . .

Be leery of anyone who seems to be more excited about the potential $ucce$$ of your product than they are about the actual product . . . They will come to you like a magnet . . .

My above comments are based on my brother's product. He came up with a really slick tool for pulling wooden form stakes. No one had every seen one like his, much less anything that actually worked. . .they simply beat stakes around to loosen & then pulled with a claw hammer.

Foolishly he walked into a hardware / automove national store and showed it to the manager. They said they normally would not be able to buy from a local vendor, but told him if you leave one with me I will submit it to our regional office that does buying.

Well they never returned the sample, but they did start offering an identical knock-off made in China in less than 60 days in all their stores & their online presence.

Steve

[beefy]

Personally I would make all I could of whatever it is . . . Market like crazy . . .

Stay away from companies that tell you they will help you patent you invention. . . they are nothing but scavengers who sell your ideas out the back door while charging you for patent development that never quite happens . . .

Steve

This has always been an area of interest for me. I've read several times to do what Steve said, get is out there and sell as much as you can as quick as you can, before others jump on your bandwagon. You've also got to consider, what would it take to bypass the patent, i.e. what change could be done that still keeps the item functional and just as good but is not copying your product.

I heard a sad story some years back. A guy designed some great thing and went to one of these companies Steve mentioned. The company said his idea was not viable, blah blah. A few months later some other company (obviously connected, just not on paper) came out with this exact product and it sold into the millions. So much for the non-disclosure statement.

The inventor committed suicide.

[CNCCAJUN]

Well my brother did not commit suicide, but the word homicide I'm sure crossed his mind.

Steve

[shiner2001]

Take all your design information, etc. put it in an envelope and mail it to yourself. When it arrives do not open it.
The post mark date will prove later the date of your design, until you get your patent if you decide to go that route.

Patent law used to dictate that if you could prove design prior to someone else, you would have priority in the patent process, in which case this tactic was viable (we have plenty of engineering drawings in our filing cabinet that are sealed registered mail for just this reason). However, patent law now dictates that the first person to FILE for a patent receives the priority, not the person who can prove that they've been working on it longer, so the mailing of certified drawings doesn't hold the water that it used to. This info is current as of the last week and comes from our patent attorney, as we are in the middle of the process right now, filing drawings and descriptions for a provisional patent (another term from the patent attorney).


(Please note I am not an attorney, I'm just passing along information second-hand).

[tnbndr]

as we are in the middle of the process right now, filing drawings and descriptions for a provisional patent (another term from the patent attorney)

So what does it cost to hire an attorney and apply for a patent?

[Joe Jones]

Decades ago, patents worked fairly well. Today, some pinhead in China can see a photo of your widget on the Internet and start reproducing it two hours later. Heck, China is even making copies of our latest fighter jets! 90% of the tools sold at Harbor Freight are cheap Chinese copies of American tools.

Just make your product, sell as many as you can, and move on to the next idea when it is no longer profitable. When there is no honor in a society, patents mean absolutely nothing. This does not apply, if you have a cousin named Guido in Chicago who can pay a visit to the person(s) who are illegally copying your widget and give them a back alley blessing.

Patents are expensive, and only worth the amount of money you are willing to spend IN ADDITION TO the initial cost of the patent, to protect it.

Ronald Reagan said, "It is amazing what mankind can accomplish, when nobody cares who gets the credit."

Make your widgets, sell them, and figure out new widgets to make and sell. Or go kill everyone who copied your idea. Your choice.

[Joe Jones]

The reason patent attorneys are so expensive is because of the patent search that must be performed, and the patent which must be written.

You design a widget. It uses a threaded rod 8" long. Your patent attorney must search EVERY enforceable patent to see if any other widget is close to yours, or if you have copied any aspect of another person's patent in your design. He concludes that YOUR widget is unique.

Now your patent is written, and to cover your butt, your attorney writes the patent to protect any widget like yours that uses a threaded rod from 1/2" to 24" in length. If anyone makes a widget that falls under the written description of YOUR widget, they have violated your patent.

The very next day, someone starts manufacturing an exact scale model of your widget with a 25" threaded rod. It is not in violation of the patent. You lose.

[shiner2001]

as we are in the middle of the process right now, filing drawings and descriptions for a provisional patent (another term from the patent attorney)

So what does it cost to hire an attorney and apply for a patent?

Very general ballpark is between $10-20K. For this latest one, our attorney said we'd be closer to $10k.

[Joe Jones]

Very general ballpark is between $10-20K. For this latest one, our attorney said we'd be closer to $10k.

Remember. He is an attorney. $14,999.99 is closer to $10,000.00 than it is to $20,000.00

[shiner2001]

Very general ballpark is between $10-20K. For this latest one, our attorney said we'd be closer to $10k.

Remember. He is an attorney. $14,999.99 is closer to $10,000.00 than it is to $20,000.00

Ha, very valid point!

[thissideup]

If you want a really good point of view on defending your patent should you be granted one, rent the movie 'Flash of Genius' It's about the gentleman that invented intermittent wipers and tried to market it to the big three. He subsequently was ripped off by all three. after years of fighting and thousands of dollars he was successful in suing them for millions, but at the cost of his wife and family.