vinegar vs muriatic acid

[abmagrum]

HI, Everyone

How does vinegar compare to the muriatic acid?

If metal is pretty rusty should it be cleaned first

How long to soak in vinegar

Thanks
Al

[steelfx]

Vinegar is a very weak form of ACETIC ACID. Muriatic acid is a diluted form of HYDROCHLORIC ACID.
Vinegar will take 10X - 20X as long to remove mill-scale as Muriatic Acid.
Really no comparison.
Time is money.

[abmagrum]

Thanks for the info

[jimjimmac]

For my 2 cents, vinegar is all I use. It is cheap, Costco has it in 1 1/2 gallon jugs. Either white vinegar or the dark kind will do. Both are 5% acidity. Also, Menards has these white plastic trays that people put under their wash machine that are a little over 3 feet square and 2 inches deep. For example, I cut a bunch of stuff this past Saturday, dumped a jug of vinegar in the tray, laid my pieces down, and over night the mild acid worked on the mill scale and the little bit dross that was there. Sunday morning, I took them out of the tray and hit them with pressure from the garden hose. The mill scale washes right off with no scrubbing leaving a dull finish. Also, on the botton of the tray was most of the dross that simply falls off during the soaking. Then, like everybody else, I grind the dull finish to a bright silver. Any left over dross flys right off during grinding.

I have heard on this site that the muriataic acid smells real bad, the fumes aren't good for you, and must also be stored in some kind of a container plus you have to wear gloves and do a little scrubbing. I don't know how much it cost because I've never bought it. I can use a batch of vinegar twice before it becomes ineffective cuz the mill scale residue and dross in the tray make it cloudy and the metal causes it to loose its acidity.

Bill is right, time is money, but what I cut today I can clean up tomorrow so I'm in no hurry. I've never had somebody come to my house and want something done right away. Steal some of the wife's vinegar then take a piece of hot rolled steel with dross on it and soak it over night to see what I am talking about.

Jim

[abmagrum]

Thanks, JIM

I will try that first.

does it take rust off too?

[jimjimmac]

I don't know Al, I never worked with rusty metal that I needed to clean up, though I do have a chemical mixture that when sprayed on, will coat clean metal with a rusty finish almost over night which some buyers like.

Jim

[planetxfred]

I'm with Jim on using vinegar instead of Muriatic acid. Besides, I am partial to NOT having everything in the shop get rusty (which is what Muriatic acid will do if not kept in sealed containers.
Fred

[urbnsr]

Thanks Jim and all. I borrowed the vinegar last night and now the mill scale just washed away. I wasn't sure how it would work with a container of muratic acid, outside, in this neighborhood.

What's the best way to dispose of the vinegar after it's usefulness time?

Thanks...
Paul

[natewelding]

after you soak it in the vinegar and wash it off, does it still leave the smell of vinegar on the metal?

[jimjimmac]

The common household vinegar most of us have is made from apples, or cider. It is organic and safe for the environment. Hell, we even eat it or pour it down our drains in the house. Some people use it as a weed killer. To dispose of it, I put one of the 3x3 trays I bought at Menards on a couple of saw horses with plywood on top. With vinegar in them, they are impossible to pick up and dump, so with 2 people working together, we scoot one of the corners over the edge of the plywood and then press the corner down because the tray is thin plastic and flexible. That drains into a funnel that fills the original containers it came from. Then put them into the garbage can. But, in the past, with the tray on the garage floor, I've dumped it down the driveway and sprayed it down with a hose.

After soaking in the vinegar then rinsing with a hose, I didn't detect any smell on my metal cuttings, but then again I never really had an urge to smell any of them

[Creative25]

I just tried vinegar. The clear advantage of vinegar is it is safe with toddlers and children around. I find it does a good job and with small children around pool acid is too risky for me.

[tnbndr]

I just tried vinegar. The clear advantage of vinegar is it is safe with toddlers and children around. I find it does a good job and with small children around pool acid is too risky for me.

If you can find pickling vinegar it is 12% instead of 5%, works a bit faster. Someone on another forum said that Sams Club or Costco carried it or even stronger vinegar.
I just disposed of mine down the drain when done with it.

[sonbakler]

I just tried vinegar. The clear advantage of vinegar is it is safe with toddlers and children around. I find it does a good job and with small children around pool acid is too risky for me.

How did it work for you?

[Creative25]

After 4 Hours Most millscale came off.
After 36 most dross came off.
This is very stubborn dross even some of it that did not come off by knocking came off this way. I will leave it till tomorrow and see what happens. I used very little vinegar it covered the items by about 5 mm.
It actually dried out and I had to add water.

The left one was cleaned with vinegar. The right one is untreated.

IMG_0827.jpeg

[sonbakler]

Wow, that is impressive. I have used acid before with great success but it is dangerous stuff and have always wanted a safer solution. Curious too see your part looks like tomorrow. Thanks for posting back.

[Creative25]

Just some feedback.
I did another batch which was less successful.
Then I realized the first batch was not covered and lots of the vinegar evaporated.

Then I uncovered the second batch and it started to work faster too.

I used Vinegar with 5% acid concentration.
I definitely will use the stronger one if I can find it.

For me vinegar is just an option for items with lots of detail.

[tnbndr]

I used Vinegar with 5% acid concentration.
I definitely will use the stronger one if I can find it.

For me vinegar is just an option for items with lots of detail.

I just saw 30% Vinegar at Home Depot in the cleaning section.

[Creative25]

We don’t have a Home Depot but I will definitely have a look if I find stronger vinegar.
If not evaporating some of it helps.
In your situation I would buy a good amount of it.

Is 30% vinegar still safe to use with bare hands?

[tnbndr]

We don’t have a Home Depot but I will definitely have a look if I find stronger vinegar.
If not evaporating some of it helps.
In your situation I would buy a good amount of it.

Is 30% vinegar still safe to use with bare hands?

If I was still in the game I would buy a pallet. I was buying 12% from a pickling plant in the city. That was the strongest I could find back then. I have heard Costco and Sams Club carry 15% vinegar now.
I am not sure if 30% is safe for bare hands but I would assume so.