Dirty patina

[exceptional]

I used copper patina from FX and usually get fairly good results, however, I get black streaks down the product which usually looks good. I thought it was sanding grit that had not been cleaned out of the cut out letters. So, it didn't really matter. But now I want a nice clean copper color with no other colors. I submerged the product in water and used my air to blast any dirt out of the letters and to completely clean the metal. But the results didn't come out as I expected. Is this just something that happens with patina? Different results each time, or is there a secret to get a nice clean copper results. Thanks for any suggestions you may have. Finally, I dried the product completely before using the patina. It still came out darker then I would have liked, looks dirty.

Thanks for your help.

[m_drunk]

I haven't been doing this very long, but that looks like one of our first attempts before we started removing the mill scale and dross from the metal with a nice long dip in a (probably too strong) acid bath. The alternative is to flip disc it until it shines and then stain it.

[exceptional]

I used acid (24 hours) and then 120 flap disk and 120 sand paper. submerged in water and with my air gun blew bubbles all over the letters to assure it was clean of any dust or anything that would run. Quickly dried and patina and this was the results. I'm confused. This was some very clean metal. Thanks for your input.

[Capstone]

One of my pieces, under the same scrutiny of cleaning had similar results. I think it's the result of the patina pooling in the cracks/crevices of the piece and dying those portions of the metal darker. You might try using a HVLP delivery instead of spray bottle to get a more uniform coverage without putting too much liquid on the piece to avoid pooling. Just a thought

[WyoGreen]

I wonder if you couldn't clean up the metal like you have been doing, then prepare a 2nd acid bath that you've put some copper in. The copper in the 2nd acid bath will copper plate the steel you put in it. It doesn't take a lot of copper for this to work, and it might be worth a try.

Steve

[exceptional]

Steve, are you saying to take my muriatic acid and put actual copper in (as in a copper pipe), not the copper patina, right? I'm fairly new at all this so forgive my question.

Thanks for the answers.

Terrill

[acourtjester]

I have tried the copper in the acid trick and IMO its not worth it you get like a powder patina that wipes off easy. More time in the acid the more powder on the part and then you get big flakes on the part and still falls off.
I think the other may be due to water quality I wonder if distilled water cleaning may help.

[WyoGreen]

Yes, just a piece of copper pipe in the Muriatic acid. Too much copper in the acid bath is as bad as too little. All the scale has to be cleaned off the steel first, or you will not get good adhesion. I haven't played with this a lot, but the copper will stick to the steel if you get the steel clean enough. If you leave it in too long, or have cleaned the mill scale in the same acid, the copper does seem to clump on the steel and wash off easily. I have a Chicken I cut for the flower bed that I did this way, I'm planning on letting it weather green once I get to working on the flower beds.

Steve

[exceptional]

I appreciate all the input, I will try some of the ideas to see if this will work. Not sure why this is such a problem now, but it is what it is. Thanks again.

[exceptional]

Can someone tell me if putting CR steel in acid is a problem? The problem above seems to be fixed, somewhat, by grinding the metal down, without acid and then immediately putting copper patina on it. Still isn't what I want but getting closer. I put my CR into the acid and then sand blasted it and cleaned it with lots of alcohol (denatured). still looked like a dirty metal but at least I got some copper shine off of it. Thanks for your help.

[steelfx]

No reason at all to put CR Steel in an acid bath.

You mentioned sanding...if you would stick with flap-discing only, that would be the best. No type of "sanding" will promote the level of shine on the steel that we're looking for.

Also, no need for solvent cleaning of any kind. All solvents leave an oily residue that repels water-based patinas.

I use Flap Discs on an Angle-Grinder with 80-Grit sometimes, but mostly 120-Grit.

The shinier the surface of the steel, the nicer the COPPER F/X™ will be.

Dark spots/streaks and color changes that are undesirable are from two things: Applying the
COPPER F/X™ on Vertical Steel or Leaving the COPPER F/X™ Patina on the steel too long before neutralizing, allowing the patina to begin drying or evaporating before neutralizing with water.

Try to keep your COPPER F/X in contact with the steel no longer than 10-15 seconds. And, resist the urge to go over an area that's already been misted with the COPPER F/X. A light mist is all that's needed. Work with your steel in a horizontal position, if possible. In the summer, try to do your patina work in the shade.

I like my steel to be damp (with water), prior to applying patina/s. Others prefer dry steel.

On pieces larger than 5 square feet, use a Pump Sprayer instead of a Trigger Sprayer.

You won't get uniform, repeatable results from Muriatic acid with copper pipe thrown in. And, if it does leave some semblance of copper plating, it will NOT age into a Verdigris Patina, ( greenish-blue patina) the way pure copper would. It will just rust.

If you follow the guidelines in the eBook, watch the videos & follow the instructions on the labels, you won't have any problems. Also, a little trial & error along with some experimentation is always helpful.

Some color variation (darker areas, not black streaks or spots), are more noticeable when viewing the piece at different angles. That is due to the prismatic effect of how you and I polish the steel with a flap disc.

Have you had a chance to check out my videos re: COPPER F/X™ at: http://steelfxpatinas.com/steel-fx-training-videos/?

The videos using COPPER F/X™ would be very helpful. There are several. They're all on youtube, too:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... qxz11yLB1x

Hope that helps & thanks!

Bill

[exceptional]

Your always helpful Bill, I appreciate your experience and willingness to share. This was very helpful, I see some things I'm doing wrong. Really struggling with these last couple of items but will follow your instructions and see if I can get past these.

Thanks,

[steelfx]

Your always helpful Bill, I appreciate your experience and willingness to share. This was very helpful, I see some things I'm doing wrong. Really struggling with these last couple of items but will follow your instructions and see if I can get past these.

Thanks,

You're very welcome! Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns.

Thanks!

Bill

[exceptional]

Had much better results with your suggestions Bill. Thanks for your help. A little more practice should help.

Terrill