laser competitor

[rikduk]

A client just brought a piece to bend, had it laser cut, says it cost him 135$, cut and material.(canadian)
I'm a little shaken.
It's a piece of 304 2b stainless 16 gauge with a 64"X32" footprint,
total cut inches:581 pierces:49
I use a modified version of the excel spreadsheet, and come up with 30$ cut, 15$ for toolpath/load/unload,
(fixed price for material handling) he has the dxf.
My material, at cost, is 106$, but i usually add 15-30%, because i buy a lot, so most people would still pay more at the
steel supply.
I always thought lasers arent cheap, but i want to know, is he cheap, or am i too expensive?
I want my plasma to run as often as possible, but dont want to give the stuff away.

thanks
Richard

[CNCCAJUN]

Did you see his invoice?

I know it is hard to believe, but even the most honest people feel it is OK to lie to a business to get a better deal.

If you feel confident about the $$$ figure he gave you, next step. . .

Sounds like you need to do some price shopping . . .

You are some one you know needs to bring a file to the laser cutting operation for a quote that is different in design, but same cutting requirements.

* Material the same
* Overall size the same
* Number of inches and pierces the same

Get a quote . . . then you will know, but don't be BSed into lowering your prices.

How about service, maybe the laser cutter's business was a little slow at the time that this customer went in.

How much help will the laser guy give his customers?

What does he charge for design?

What is his delivery like?

I have at least dozen plasma cutting tables & another dozen laser or water jet cutters within 25 miles of my home.

They still have high prices, slow service & really don't want small jobs.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the laser cutter is lowering his prices because of YOU.

Go talk to him. A race to see who goes out of business first is not good for anyone.

Also, consider developing a product. Think of the different things you have made or had a part in making for your customers to solve their particular problem. Could that item be a product.

A water jet cutter near me had a guy come in with a drawing for a special flat cut wrench made of 3/8" aluminum to use on the sewer system of one of those million $$$ RVs. Needless to say, the water jet cutter is cutting 36 at a time now and selling them in a classified ads in RV magazines. See, they already existed, but made of 12 gauge steel. Rich people don't like to handle rusty things with poop on them. Rust and poop is all the same to them.



My 2 cents,
Steve

[Shane Warnick]

I ran the math using your cost for the material and my standard markup. Best I can tell, the laser guy did it for cost. I would have been double, or actually I think it came to $268 out the door. That would include my standard markup on material (double cost) then using that number at the square inch price for the cut inches. I don't usually charge for pierces unless it is over 5/8" thick. I feel like you would have been in the same ballpark after you marked the material up and charged for the cutting etc. Not sure, but I don't figure you are cutting jut for grins. I feel like the guy was full of BS, or you didn't get the whole story. Also wondering why the laser guy didn't bend it for him too? Either the guy was lying, hoping to get you to give him a stupid low price on something he is going to ask to get cut in the near future, or he's married to the guy that has the laser's sister or some such. Or, he could just be one of those guys that will overpay for everything and then swear to everyone he haggled the vendor into cutting it at a loss just because it was the right thing to do.

I agree with the price shopping deal, but I think we all know what you will find. If you need someone to get all 007 for you, get me the guys info and a reasonably close file, and I will call and tell him some BS about coming in to do an install or repair or some such and needing a local cutter to fab the part for me. I will email him the file and see what kind of numbers I get.

I also agree about not pricing yourself out the door and don't lower your prices unless you are getting the brakes beat off of you. I will tell you with confidence that I don't know of anywhere in west texas you could get that cut for that price, plasma, laser, or waterjet.

Hang in there and don't beat yourself up second guessing your prices. I know I wasted a ton of time and finally settled on fair. I charge what I feel is fair, they take it or not. I have had numerous people tell me I was nuts and waaaay overpriced. Almost without fail I have seen them back in 7-10 days asking for me to cut their parts. The ones I never saw again, I figure never bothered getting their stuff cut at all. Either that, or they were a lot more stubborn than me and spent extra $ just not to have to eat crow. Keep us posted on how it works out and stay safe.
Shane

[rikduk]

I went on the laser's website, they offer bending services, why wasnt it done there?

I try to give a fair price, to make money, and have the table running.
Because with the cutting often comes bending and welding

I dont know if ill ever hear the truth, but ill keep you posted.

Note to everyone: If you dont already have the excel spreadsheet for pricing, GET IT!!!
once you figure out a good price per inch, its easy to quote jobs.

[jimcolt]

Depending on the laser power level and manufacturer....a laser cutting 16 gauge stainless using high pressure N2 cutting will cut at much faster speeds as compared to an air plasma, in fact the laser will cut faster than any plasma on materials to about 3/16". So, if the Laser shop has already written off the cost of the laser and they are struggling for business (there are a lot of laser shops that are not real busy), they could easily charge less for a thin SS or steel cut part. Lasers will get slower than air plasma (again depending on type and power level) generally above 3/16".

Cutting cost with a laser is relatively low on materials thinner than 3/16" due to quality and speed. Purchase cost (usually above $350k) for a laser cutting system that can cut over 1/4" is dramatically higher than an entry level cnc air plasma (maybe $20k). If the laser is a C02 laser, there is high maintenance costs which includes a resonator rebuild after x number of operating hours...these rebuilds can be in the $35k to $75k cost range.

In reality, based on equipment capability it is probably wrong to fairly compare a $350 industrial laser to a $20k entry level plasma CNC. Kind of like comparing a Ford Ranger Pickup to an F450 work truck. A high definition plasma that uses F5 for the cut gas and N2 for the shield gas on an industrial cnc machine ($100k) is a better comparison to a laser. High definition plasma costs as 5x to 8x that of an entry level air plasma, but cuts faster, with better quality and at a much lower cost per foot of cut as compared to an air plasma.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[CNCCAJUN]

I would think if you have an entry level CNC Plasma Table you would do better with niches.

Creating products, assisting customers with design beyond just redrawing their paper bag illustrations and actually calling on companies that could use your help (4 wheeler shops, golf cart dealers, motorcycle shops, small fabricators).

Try to provide solutions for people via "your shop & your abilities".

Remember, the guy running the table at a big shop in most cases treats it no different than if he were de-burring parts.

More than likely If you go heads up against one of these big cutting outfits you will loose.

My 2 cents . . .
Steve

[BTA Plasma]

Richard is running a HSD 130 on one of our tables. I would classify the tables as mid range tables. Where the performance is much better than an entry level but doesn't take full advantage of the top features like Hypertherms true hole. That table will easily run and support a 400amp plasma with dual shielding gas.

[CNCCAJUN]

Understand . . . my comments were in reference to an entry level table much like mine.

I have a 4X4 DYNATORCH XLS with a PowerMAX 85 torch.

So in this business I would consider my table excellent quality, but entry level in terms of capability.

What brand is Richard's table.

Steve

[rikduk]

I run a Bulltear table.
I know a laser is much faster, but cost of the machine and repairs are MUCH higher. So i thought like mr. Colt, that they were just running for cost to get jobs.
I mainly use the table for in-house work, but getting more cut jobs would be welcome.

[cstroke]

local laser company, 3/8" steel 75 bucks per plate 13 x 65 with 425 holes per piece to cut.
this is a mennonite company.
hard to compete with them on price and quality. only way to beat them is turn around. they are backlogged for 2 weeks.
local for me is central pa.