PM85 Pricing

[SomethingMetal]

I had a local welding supply company give me a quote for a new PM85 and they priced me at $4135.24 including tax. That is the cutter with both a machine and hand held torch lead. I then got online to compare the pricing and I can have one delivered to my door with no tax and free shipping for $3660.00. I hate it for the local guy b/c I know he is trying to compete but I can't turn down a $475 savings. That is alot of consumables for the machine. Plus I can order the consumables cheaper online and I can from the local guy!! Anybody else run into this problem?

[Garysbiz]

All the time here in North Central Washington, one tool supplier could not even get me pricing on some simple items and after 10 days and 3 calls I gave up and ordered myself online. I had to bug the Hypertherm distributor constantly when I ordered my PM65 to make sure it was getting done. It is hard to buy local sometimes but I am learning how NOT to treat customers and understanding the power of purchasing over the interweb.

[jimcolt]

The Powermax85 with a hand and machine torch has a suggested list price of $4590. I have no idea how the distributor can ship it to you for the price you listed.....he is not making any money! Have you tried to get the local guy to supply you with some gloves, glasses, consumables or other accessories? Often you can get them a lot closer than the online deal.

I pay extra at my local dealer because over time I find it is well worth it. The time I needed a cylinder of argon/c02 on Saturday morning.....they were not open but he had someone leave it out on the dock for me. The time he took a floor model Miller welder apart so I didn't have to wait for wire feeder parts. Not instant gratification....but over time well worth it. In the future someday we will all be disappointed when we have to wait for the Brown truck for everything!

Jim Colt Hypertherm

I had a local welding supply company give me a quote for a new PM85 and they priced me at $4135.24 including tax. That is the cutter with both a machine and hand held torch lead. I then got online to compare the pricing and I can have one delivered to my door with no tax and free shipping for $3660.00. I hate it for the local guy b/c I know he is trying to compete but I can't turn down a $475 savings. That is alot of consumables for the machine. Plus I can order the consumables cheaper online and I can from the local guy!! Anybody else run into this problem?

[gary42095]

i agree jim, i use the locally owned local guy for most of my stuff. i try to support small locals first .
certain things i buy online because they are way high, and cant move
or i use way too many, much to not try to save.
the local tries to somewhat compete with online and my prices on comsumables are cheaper than what i have seen some post as decent prices, typically i dont complain when buying from my supply place, everyone needs to make a buck (within reason)
i dont like when i get charged 85 bucks from a dealer for a blinker assembly, when i get the identical assembly from napa auto parts for 35 bucks. there is no reason for it and i think it drives people to shop online

[beefy]

Jim,

don't know if you have any idea on Australian prices but I paid A$6000 for my Powermax 1250 with HAND torch about 4 years ago, then later bought the Duramax machine torch for A$1100 so in total I've paid A$7100 for my PM1250 with both torches.

I really don't know what inflates the prices here on imported products, whether it's supplier greed or there are some genuine costs they have to eat. Either way it's no wonder many Australians buy overseas, leaves us more money to pay our huge utility bills.

Keith

[muzza]

Just one of the privileges of living in paradise Keith

It's not just on Hypertherm it's on so many things we buy on a daily basis, seems everything in Australia has at least one middle man if not more and they all want a slice of the pie and not just a sample taste either. Our quality of living doesn't come for free.

I have a range of product I sell largely through resellers, they want at least 100% markup in the product so the ones I sell direct in my opinion have an inflated price to satisfy their margin ( but if a customer buys one from me at full price I generally give them a little freebie ). I have now been approached by another company who wants to be my wholesaler and sell to lots of resellers, they tell me they have to buy it at 50% cheaper so they can still sell it to the resellers for a similar price to what I have been
ie they want to buy for $12.50 so they can sell to resellers for $25.00 to retail for $50.00, trouble is the next guy down the road takes them up on it and then the wholesale guy realises he now has the volume to have them made in China, the manufacturer and the consumer are both screwed and the middle men get fat

I wonder where our problems is

Yes I have some Chinese tools and bits but I do try to buy Australian made where possible and practical, I was told yesterday that Kelvinator (the last refrigeration manufacturer in Oz) will no longer be making "any" electrical appliances in Australia after 1016, so that adds to Holden (GM), Ford, Totota and countless others that will no longer be manufacturing in Australia after 2016. What really concerned me on a recent holiday to the coast was looking at all the Australian souvenirs, didgeridoos, carvings, tea towels etc. , even kangaroo and koala products that were labeled "made in China" How the hell are we supposed to buy Australian made when it's no longer available because all of the manufacturers have had to close their doors?

Sorry I seem to have got a bit side tracked and gone a bit off topic here, back to your original question, sometimes service cost a few dollars, maybe not the service you need today but tomorrow. In this case, at least if your buying online your still buying local but weigh up the total cost not just the purchase price.
Murray

[Largemouthlou]

Are you sure that is with both torches?? Just checked around and I can find close to your price for a new 85 with machine torch only.. Better get it in writing..

[beefy]

Just one of the privileges of living in paradise Keith
Murray

That's what I thought it was when I came here, but I immediately started a tight access excavation business no paradise for me.

I think it used to be paradise but that is fast going down the drain. We've got one of the lowest affordability ratios in the world for buying a house, utility bills are just getting ridiculous, fuel has doubled in just a few years, yet wages haven't kept up at all. Comparatively speaking it's a great place to live but the land of milk and honey is something that used to be, unless you've got money.

I think buying Australian is not going to save us, too many of the population are just trying to scrape by and won't pay when there's a significantly cheaper alternative. Our living costs are just too high and wages are not going up with the cost of living. I have no idea what the answer is.

Then we've got the impractical education system bleeding everyone dry, we'll need a degree soon to be a toilet cleaner. A lot of degrees are not a practical necessity, they are just a piece of paper to get you in the door, THEN you start learning. If that time, energy and money could be focussed on useful practical skills, I think we'd benefit as a nation overall.

It's a crazy situation, the western worlds technology is being used against us, then our own BS of eduction, OH&S, regulations, litigation, etc, etc, slows everything down and stifles our productivity even more.

Then there's the unions, halting everything when a sprinkle of rain appears. No wonder we are going down.

Sorry about the rant, nothing much about plasma cutting there

Keith.

[tnbndr]

I concur with Jim on this one. I buy from the local guy even though he is a bit higher for the reasons Jim stated. Sometimes you just need to bite the bullet.

[abmetal]

I feel pretty fortunate. I've bought 2 Miller welders, 3 HP plasma cutters, 1 TD plasma cutter, a Baileigh saw, and each time our local Airgas dealer met or beat the best price I could find online. They treat us like we're one of their biggest customers but we're just little ducks in a big puddle. Super guys!

Allen

[kbenz]

When the board went out on my pm600. I ended up ordering a pm65 online from Harris. They could get it to my door quicker and cheaper than the locals. ordered on a tues. was in my driveway thurs morning( I think) It was 3 days quicker than the LWS

[jimcolt]

I am very aware of the prices in Australia. The CE rated Hypertherm units available in Australia actually have a lower suggested list price than the US CSA versions. As we all know...."suggested list" from a factory means nothing. For some reason many online US distributors are willing to sell equipment at margins that cannot possibly turn a profit (I know what they pay for them, trust me), yet in other regions with high demand the distributors do just the opposite and charge much higher prices.

Ultimately.....everything will someday only be available online. We will lose a lot of the local jobs, the local service and support.....but products will all be at extremely low purchase price. I'm not sure that it is a good direction!

Jim Colt

Jim,

don't know if you have any idea on Australian prices but I paid A$6000 for my Powermax 1250 with HAND torch about 4 years ago, then later bought the Duramax machine torch for A$1100 so in total I've paid A$7100 for my PM1250 with both torches.

I really don't know what inflates the prices here on imported products, whether it's supplier greed or there are some genuine costs they have to eat. Either way it's no wonder many Australians buy overseas, leaves us more money to pay our huge utility bills.

Keith

[weldor2005]

Jim,

I would be curious to know if you have insight on some other numbers. Seems to me that manufacturing and online supplies are selling machinery at low margin in hopes that they are taking more margin and more quantity of sales in return customers on consumables and replacement parts? Would you find this to be true of the Hypertherm consumables?

I know that when working for CAT, the numbers for the dealerships were all in parts and repairs and maintenance, not nearly as much in selling the equipment new.

[abmetal]

A friend of mine runs a local forklift company and he told me that they normally sell their forklifts at or near cost because the money is made from maintenance and repair. A LOT of money is made on service contracts. It appears that it's the industry trend.

Allen

[jimcolt]

Margins on machinery (at Hypertherm) are less than that of consumables. Power supplies are labor intensive and also require a level of warranty work after the sale.....which has to be accounted for. Historically our warranty costs are a fraction of what they were 25 years ago.....due to better design, better reliability and better quality control.

Consumables and torches for plasma are actually very hard to design.....think 25,000 degree plasma arc being squeezed by a copper orifice to increase its velocity and density....copper melts at just over 1000 degrees. Engineering costs are high and are protected with intellectual property rights in the form of patents. This helps keep the consumables in our court....but patents only last so long.

Repair parts business can be profitable, however we would rather that repairs never had to occur!

Our business is unique in that we invest a large percentage of profit into engineering and research.....the goal of that is to continue to stay ahead of all of our competitors from a technology perspective, and the direct result of that is better performance. Not lower priced......better performance. For over 45 years that has worked well for Hypertherm.

Jim Colt

Jim,

I would be curious to know if you have insight on some other numbers. Seems to me that manufacturing and online supplies are selling machinery at low margin in hopes that they are taking more margin and more quantity of sales in return customers on consumables and replacement parts? Would you find this to be true of the Hypertherm consumables?

I know that when working for CAT, the numbers for the dealerships were all in parts and repairs and maintenance, not nearly as much in selling the equipment new.