Question for Bill on patina metal finishing

[GDS Metal Worx]

Hey Bill. I have gotten a job doing som various metal work projects for anNFL player's new house and I am needing to do a patina finish on a whole wall that I am going to be covering in steel. I will be using 1/8" steel sheets. Was thinking of using P and O for ease of cleaning prior to patina. My question for you is what patinas would you use to get the desired coloration and do you have any special tips that might help me? Here is a sample picture that I have been given by the designer as to what coloring we are looking to get. Any help would be awsome. I have your starter kit and I love using it. I need to reorder a few of the patinas and will do so once I hear your options on what to use. Thanks
Garrett

[steelfx]

Garrett,

The finish in the top & bottom photo could be easily replicated using BRONZE F/X.
The finish in the center photo could be done with FLAME F/X.

For the BRONZE F/X work, I would use a heavy-nap roller and not be too concerned about perfect, uniform color...because once you neutralize w/ water & force-dry w/ compressed air, you will then get the muted lights & darks by burnishing with a white Scotchbrite pad or #000 steel wool.

Not a lot of pressure needed, just lightly work the surface from top to bottom, getting the desired look. I would then tack-rag & clear-coat w/ flattened automotive clear-coat.

You can have it flattened to achieve semi-gloss, satin or eggshell...I wouldn't flatten it all the way to "flat". The flatting agent is usually added by weight, so it would be best to have your clear-coat vendor do the flattening.

For the center photo, I would spray a fine mist of FLAME F/X in 3 - 4 sq. ft. areas, neutralize & move to a new area.
Followed by burnishing in more of a circular pattern, then misting more FLAME F/X in areas that need darkening. That way you'll get the mottled look of lights/darks that the photo shows.

When you prep the P&O steel, please do not use any solvent or oil-based cleaner. Even acetone, the strongest solvent I know of, will inevitably leave a trace amount of residue that will repel the water-based patina/s.

Use GRIME GIT'R, which has no solvents, oils or chemicals that will react adversely with the patinas. I formulated it specifically for cleaning P&O or CR prior to grinding/flap-discing or sanding. It works & it works very well! No fumes, no odor & won't burn your skin (wear disposable nitrile gloves, anyway) & rinses clean, with no contaminants that will work against you & the patinas. It will remove 100% of the oil on P&O or CR.

Left on for 15 minutes, it will remove even heavy rust. After 1 hr., it will remove mill-scale. I have not tested it for time needed to loosen and/or remove dross. It's also great for cleaning & etching concrete. (Found that out by accident when I spilled a little on my shop floor)

Speaking of surface prep, based on the photos & "look" we're after, I would prep the entire sheet with a 6" DA sander & 80-grit paper. It will leave no striations, swirl-marks or deep cuts that would negatively impact the finished look.

The DA Sander I use is made by DynaBrade, I've had it for years & it still performs flawlessly.
Not sure of the model #, but I could look at it when I get to my shop in the a.m. & let you know. 80-grit may sound harsh, but it's not. Any grit finer than that will load up too fast. The DA will give you a matte finish on the steel.

I definitely would NOT use an angle-grinder with a flap-disc on that much surface area.

Hope that all makes sense...if you have any further questions, please let me know.

thanks,

Bill

[GDS Metal Worx]

Sorry for the delay in response. I did order a few more products from you and have been working on this part of the project for a few days. A few questions though...
I HAVE to use a grinder on this as there are openings that get cut out and 1" returns welded in them, and the wall is angled and 19" deep. Have to weld many pieces together. This thing is huge. 12'4" wide and 7' tall at one end, 2' tall on the other. Not enough room in my shop to make it so I had to build a tent out of 2xs4s and tarps outside just to assemble it. And it weighs over 350 pounds. Decided to cut it into 3 sections so I can get it back in the shop to work it as the temps are below freezing for highs and we are supposed to get negative temps again. So after finishing my welds carefuly with a flap grinder and getting them close I am using an 8" sanding disk with 80 gritto finish it off. I am going over that with the DA and it is mellowing the grind marks out. You said about usinga white scothchbrite. I have never seen a white one. Do you sell them or have a source for them?

Thanks

Garrett

[steelfx]

I get mine from an auto-body supply store in town. No plans to carry them right now.

I'm pretty sure the white ones are 3M-7445. And, there's an ultra-fine pad that is gray in color. That one is 3M-7448

I buy 'em in boxes of 20 for about $30.00. They're 6" X 9" and about a 1/4" thick. You can also use #000 #0000 steel wool, but it's messier. I use 'em all.

thanks,

Bill

[ChrisFern]

Bill,

Is this nearly the same method of finishing for results closer to the ones shown on this A-Frame table and stool by Vintage Industrial? http://www.retro.net/

IMG_2836.jpg

A-Frame-and-Bench.jpg

Regards,

Chris

[steelfx]

I doubt it, but w/o seeing it in person...can't be sure. Looks like burnished HR steel to me. Maybe distressed a little & waxed, but I don't believe there's any patinas involved.
Bill

[ChrisFern]

Thank you for the quick response

[ChrisFern]

I was able to find this Cold Black Oxide Kit for guys looking to finish smaller items and hardware.

http://www.caswellplating.com/metal-fin ... -kits.html

Hope this helps.

-Chris

[ChrisFern]

As a follow up to the images from Vintage Industrial, I have discovered that Cold Blueing otherwise known as Black Oxide is a popular finish for furniture and wall d?cor( see the Caswell link in my previous post) but can be expensive for large projects and is most likely not what is shown on the stool and table. I also happened upon a forum discussion which is much closer to the desired look for much less expense. Many alternatives are provided within this thread http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?26 ... lled-steel

It appears Black Metal Wax from Industrial Metal Supply was one solution as are cheaper versions of Black Oxide such as PC-9 at Ball Consulting in Tempe or at Industrial Metal Supply

http://www.sculptnouveau.com/Details.cf ... category=6

http://www.sculptnouveau.com/Details.cf ... category=7

http://www.sculptnouveau.com/Details.cf ... category=7

Please someone let me know if I am heading in the wrong direction, hope I have not hijacked this thread...

Regards,
Chris

[steelfx]

Guess it depends on how much you want to spend. STEEL F/X? Patinas work without the need to heat the metal, which is also a plus.

Cold Bluing and Black Oxide are NOT the same. Cold bluing relies on selenious acid & nickel sulfate & will not produce a dark-blue-black finish w/o repeated applications.

Black Oxide relies on either phosphoric acid and/or ammonium phosphate.

BLACK F/X? uses a proprietary blend, including Ammonium Molybdate, which is much quicker & safer than the other formulae, and costs 5X as much as ammonium phosphate. It also contains Silver Nitrate, which is about $200 for 100 grams. The chemical reaction & resulting color is instantaneous. http://steelfxpatinas.com/shop/steel-patinas/black-fx/

STEEL F/X? does NOT charge Haz-Mat fees on top of shipping. The "other guys" do.

If you need Metal Oil or Metal Wax, buy wax type Shoe Polish. Same thing...much cheaper. (not recommended for pieces that will be displayed outdoors or indoors in direct sunlight, as there are no UV inhibitors in it) Nor, are they in the expensive metal waxes you referred to, but thanks so much for the links. Very helpful.


bw

[ChrisFern]

Excellent information, Thank you!