Intro, first post, table questions and THANKS!!

[shiner2001]

I've been on the fence for years about taking the plunge and getting a CNC table and have finally decided to pull the trigger and go for it. I have spent literally hours and hours on this site over the past several days reading all I can about everything from software to tables and everything in between. I've been using a Powermax 45 for a few years and will transition that to my table once I get it in and get a machine torch. My plans are for light fabrication and decorative metal work (your standard mailbox toppers, napkin holders, etc etc).

Now, until the past several hours I had made up my mind to get a Burntable 4x2. I've visited their facility and was very very impressed with the actual physical build quality and construction of their tables. It seems though after doing some more research that there are several out there with less than satisfactory results. I know that just like restaurants and product reviews, the people that either love it or hate it are usually the ones that make their voices heard, so I'm wondering if I am seeing a true representation of the Burntables reputation. I'm ready to place an order for one on Monday or Tuesday if this is the one I decide to go with. Unfortunately it seems as though this is only table in my price range, so I don't know what else I'll do if I get steered away from this one.

Thoughts/opinions/recommendations??

Thanks in advance for the info, as well as for being an AMAZING resource for the CNC plasma world!!

--Derek

[abmagrum]

did you try Arclight http://www.arclightcnc.com/
this is a very good table .
email or give Scott a call he is real friendly and will help if he can.
the price should be close .

its a heavy duty /quality machine

[shiner2001]

I have looked at those briefly, but I am really more interested in a 4x2 table. Those are still at the lower end of the price scale, too, but still more than what I have budgeted since finding Burntables. Anyone with firsthand knowledge of them want to chime in? Having seen them in person, I don't know that I'm going to let what I read online completely sway my opinion, but this IS a large investment for me, so I would like all the info I can get my hands on.

[CNCCAJUN]

If you want to save $$$$, want a 2X4 table I would look at a PlasmaCAM GO_TORCH.

I would then build a stand for it like Jim Colt did for the FABTECH Show.

Steve

[shiner2001]

That's the first I've heard of that table. I just went through their website and it's an interesting concept indeed. I wonder what the additional costs are for making it a 4x2 and for adding THC. Anyone know that? They have a forum, but it's for owners only.

Is there more info about the stand that CNCCAJUN referenced?

[CNCCAJUN]

That's the first I've heard of that table. I just went through their website and it's an interesting concept indeed. I wonder what the additional costs are for making it a 4x2 and for adding THC. Anyone know that? They have a forum, but it's for owners only.

You can do all of the above . . . .

Is there more info about the stand that CNCCAJUN referenced?

Contact PlasmaCAM . . .they are really helpful answering questions . . .

As to the stand . . . I'm sure Jim will see your post . . . He is very knowledgeable about PlasmaCAM . . .

I think the one he currently owns is his third . . .

http://www.gotorch.com/

Steve

[drakus]

That's the first I've heard of that table. I just went through their website and it's an interesting concept indeed. I wonder what the additional costs are for making it a 4x2 and for adding THC. Anyone know that? They have a forum, but it's for owners only.

Is there more info about the stand that CNCCAJUN referenced?

gotorch is not owned by plasmacam, it is a different company from my understanding. They just use the plasmacam parts and software.

I am sure that the gototch can be expanded for your needs like the 4x4 can be expanded from plasmacam.

I have seen posts about the THC being only a simple one not advanced, but again, I am unsure of that.

see here for more details.

http://www.gotorch.com/homemade-cnc/

[CNCCAJUN]

I checked with PlasmaCAM, they say they are not affiliated with GO-TORCH in any way, except allowing them access to their pieces parts, technology & software . . .

I had no idea that they were that willing to share. . .

As to customizing GO-TORCH, their website clearly says you can.

Steve

[shiner2001]

Looking into them more today, it seems like the Gotorch system would be a great example of a base-price machine that comes with no extras at all, even the "necessary" ones. To get to the size I want, with THC and software, the bill adds up pretty quick. I also don't really like the idea that I can't pick up the phone and talk to Mr. GoTorch when I need some help. I get the business model, I just don't really care for it. The association/non-association with PlasmaCam is also weird.

I've only ever seen PlasmaCams at trade shows and it's been a long time since I have, but that was kind of what sold me on the Burntable. A couple of emails and I was walking around the factory with one of the owners. Between an apparently solid and well made piece of equipment and their good communication (and a great price) I was happy. It made me think of the difference in going to a one-off fabricator or getting a mass-produced piece of equipment, although the price points are flipped. But, like I said, I know there is more to a table than it being a solidly built piece of equipment, which is why I wanted to get some more info on them before I dropped $7000. I know in the CNC world, that's not a lot, but in my world, it is!

[abmagrum]

you ever think of buying used ? put a post in the classified section you could end up with a good deal.
settle for a cheap economy one . you will be very dissapointed

here is one 6500.00 if still available http://plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=11855
look in the classified section even if its a old post still might be available

[jimcolt]

Go torch is a separate company, owned by PlasmaCam, with the same address in Colorado City, CO. It is marketed as a low cost version of their 4 x 4 and 5 x 10 machines, stripped of the advanced software and height control functionality.....this is to compete on a level playing field and price with others in the market that offer stripped machines. You can add software upgrades and height control upgrades to any of the machines and the price rises accordingly. The Go Torch can be bought for $3k. To make it work like the one I brought to the Sema show (advanced CAD CAM software and advance height control...it was $6k. Worth every penny, and a similarly equipped Torchmate or other brand will be priced the same.

I designed a downdraft table (built by my son and I) to control fumes at the SEMA show....we cut for 4 days with no smoke inside the convention center. If you bought a Powermax45, a 2 x 2 go torch and the fume control (hybrid water/downdraft/filtration) system, you would have about $12k in it.

Jim Colt

machine at show.jpg (137.07 KiB) Viewed 8004 times

machine at show.jpg (137.07 KiB) Viewed 8004 times

[shiner2001]

Go torch is a separate company, owned by PlasmaCam, with the same address in Colorado City, CO. It is marketed as a low cost version of their 4 x 4 and 5 x 10 machines, stripped of the advanced software and height control functionality.....this is to compete on a level playing field and price with others in the market that offer stripped machines. You can add software upgrades and height control upgrades to any of the machines and the price rises accordingly. The Go Torch can be bought for $3k. To make it work like the one I brought to the Sema show (advanced CAD CAM software and advance height control...it was $6k. Worth every penny, and a similarly equipped Torchmate or other brand will be priced the same.

I designed a downdraft table (built by my son and I) to control fumes at the SEMA show....we cut for 4 days with no smoke inside the convention center. If you bought a Powermax45, a 2 x 2 go torch and the fume control (hybrid water/downdraft/filtration) system, you would have about $12k in it.

Jim Colt

machine at show.jpg

Thanks for the info on that setup, Jim, I appreciate it. Do you also have any hands on experience with Burntable?

Can anyone tell me what the ballpark going rate for the smallest (4x4 I think)? Plasmacam with THC is right now?

[drakus]

Thanks for the info on that setup, Jim, I appreciate it. Do you also have any hands on experience with Burntable?

Can anyone tell me what the ballpark going rate for the smallest (4x4 I think)? Plasmacam with THC is right now?

If prices haven't changed it is either 7 or 8k for base model 4x4, adv software is 1k adv height control is 2k (basic height control is 1k - spend the $$$ and get the adv) for best, adv machine control as well.

I think my total was around 13.5 or 14k including shipping.

The adv height control and machine control is well worth all the money you spend. (3k for them)

[Metriccar]

It's $9900 for the base Plasmacam with DHC2, no options. They used to have a PDF that showed all their pricing, but I can't seem to find it now. I saw an invoice from someone selling a used DHC2 who paid $8000 a year ago so either the guy haggled or they just went up a lot in price over the past year. His was a DHC2 as well. It was for sale but he spent his money on options I didn't want and didn't buy the options I would have wanted (he spent $ on design software and not advanced machine/motion and height control. He was a metal art guy so a little extra dross or out of round holes probably wasn't so critical to him).

$7000 is still a lot of money. $9000 or $10000 is even more, yes. But the thing is, if you scrimp on that extra $3k you may wind up with a machine that 1) Doesn't do what you need it to do and 2) Wears out quickly, with some of the items that wear being welded onto the frame with welds that are critical to the precision and smoothness of the frame, you're even further away from getting a machine that will actually work for you since you just sunk $7k into one that doesn't work.

If the Burntable is able to cut parts that you want, with the precision and accuracy that you think you'll ever need, fine, but I'd still be worried when the bearings are rolling on mild steel that's welded to the frame, IF that's the way they build them, I can't tell for sure by looking at the pics. It would make me wonder if I'll get the lifespan of the machine I want before it needs major refurbishing/fabbing (ie redesign of new gantry/rail system if the frame is worth reusing).

You could get the DHC2 with no options delivered to your door for like $10,300 or so and do the other options later. If you're like me though you'll probably really procrastinate adding on and just sticking with the substandard stuff though.

[shiner2001]

I've been back in touch with my contact at Burntable and am going to stop back through there on Monday to address some of the issues that I have seen people bring up. The bearing on mild steel is something that I will also look into. In all actuality, if I decide against a Burntable, I'm probably out the market for a table at all. I can't really justify the extra $3k right now, so I'll just have to see what else I can learn in person and make a decision from there. drakus, I agree with you, I'm sure that whatever I ended up with, if it was bare bones, I would probably just keep making do with that instead of upgrading. I dunno, I guess I just need to do more evaluation in person and make a decision.

[CNCCAJUN]

You could always get PlasmaCAM to finance the rest, or go through a equipment leasing company.

Over a couple years it would not be that bad for something that is capable of making money.

You have to keep in mind, you are buying something that is easily capable of paying for it's self.

Not like buying a new truck that simply totes your butt around and depreciates.

My 2 cents . . . why, because I have already been through this phase of wanting a CNC Plasma Table ....

Will buy somebody's table right after the first of the year . . . Roughly 45 days from now . . .

Steve

[Mountain Home]

Have you looked at the LDR tables that are advertized on this site? I don't have any personal knowledge about them but there are some folks on this forum that talk highly of them and they look to be in the price range your looking for.

[Metriccar]

I was going to mention them but you have to avcount for shipping costs. They are on the east coast and use a shipping co that doesn't unload at docks. Of course if you use your own shipper it may cost less. LDR was the cheapest table co I talked to. There's Eagle Plasma on eBay too but not sure of the quality. Final option is a DIY table with gantry and electronic kits That might not be a bad option for you.

[dhelfter]

This is Dan at LDR Motion Systems. You are correct, shipping must be accounted for and it is not cheap. Our machines are heavy industrial units, not light and bolt together. That can be a disadvantage when shipping is concerned. I would like to mention though that we will ship with any company someone wants to. We have had bad luck shipping these with "normal" box carriers as they move them thru docks, and not point to point. These are big heavy machines to run thru a warehouse We only recommend a company, it is not required and we do not make anything on shipping. Our machines also come with standard with many features that are additional on others.

[dhelfter]

shiner2001
There are many good machines out there. You have to find the right fit for your setup. You do need to make sure you compare apples to apples. Many companies get you with features you need yet they are "options". Our systems include everything less plasma cutter. (which we can provide at our cost) . Comes with licensed software, computer, and torch height is standard. Drive on both sides of gantry and air bladder water table, which is usually found on high price systems. I am a firm believer that you would be happy with many of the machines out there, to me it is a ford chevy thing! But bang for buck we are hard to beat! Check out our price page at
http://ldrmotionsystems.com/products_main/pricing/

Thanks Dan

[billy55]

Shiner plasmaroute has great equipment been running mine for a couple of years now and its done great,haven't had one problem with it at all {knock on wood}. Your welcome to come by and check out my system if you'd like we are only about 20 miles apart.

[shiner2001]

Sorry for the absence, I haven't meant to leave anyone hanging that has directed questions or comments my direction. The weather here has had me gone from home a little longer than the weekend trip to Austin and back by the Burntables factory than I had planned. Anyway, based on the space available in my shop and the price of the table, but more importantly in the firsthand impression I got of the table and the people from Burntable, I have now "officially" put down my deposit on a 2x4 table and should be able to pick it up within a month's time. I appreciate all the insight that everyone has had, it ultimately led to some great questions that I previously would not have had in mind.

Shiner plasmaroute has great equipment been running mine for a couple of years now and its done great,haven't had one problem with it at all {knock on wood}. Your welcome to come by and check out my system if you'd like we are only about 20 miles apart.

billy55, I'd love to take you up on your offer even though we have wound up with different tables. I am very much going to be learning as I go and could use all the knowledge I could get from someone who has done CNC plasma work firsthand. I'm now onto air and dryer work, hopefully I'll get it all set up and ready before I get the table.

I currently have a 33 gallon compressor, which I don't think will quite be enough to keep up with any extended cutting. In all honesty, it would probably work for me for awhile as I'm sure I won't be doing much lengthy cutting, but more smaller stuff as I learn the machine. I do have access to a 60 gallon compressor since my dad just upgraded to an 80 in our other shop, so I might as well just wire that one up. Of course, I'm going to have to work on adding another breaker to run the plasma and the compressor simultaneously.

Concerning a dryer set up, anyone here use this one?

http://www.harborfreight.com/compressed ... 40211.html

Of course I am typically immediately leery of anything Harbor Freight, but this seems to have some good reviews and their quality actually seems to have improved a bit over the last few years.

Again, thanks to everyone for your input so far...I'm still chock full of questions with many many more to come!!

[abmagrum]

you don't need it unless you like spending money.
check out old sarges post
http://plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f ... yer#p59409
it will do the same thing . cost nothing to run .
pm me and I can tell you even easier one.

then you have to put a filter system in. http://www.plasmaspider.com/shop/plasma_air_dryers.html

don't forget to ground the table and water tray if you have one .

[shiner2001]

I'm looking forward to getting the table in hand so I can design a water tray set up for it. Pretty sure that's gonna be a necessity in my shop.