Help me put a price on these little booties, please.

[AnotherDano]

These things are to be attached to a split-ring keychain and given to each attendee at a conference.
It's a small municipality government thing. They want 350 of them.
3.5" tall. 12" of linear cut. 14ga cold-rolled steel.
My system is well tuned so the dross is minimal but each one does need to be scratched up a bit to give it some 'tooth' for the finish.

This one has been powder coated and that price has been established.

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Thanks,
Dano

[kbenz]

$1.83 a piece

[boodog710]

We are in the same ball park, I would say $1.75 each. Without powder coating!

[AnotherDano]

There is a lot of dross removal on those 350 pieces. Not that my table produces much, but each piece must be prepped for the coating.

The material and cost of running the machine is really minimal. The labor is the question. I dread making the itty-bitty things, especially in large quantity. My 'standard' is to knock off the dross with a twsted-wire cup and 'flatten' the surface with a belt sander (50 grit for 'tooth'). Keeping with that standard requires a lot of individual handling; labor.

Less than a couple of bucks each seems realstic to my 'consumer' mind, but then I switch over to the practical view and it seem pretty low. For ten pieces, it's good. But consider handling 350 of them individually and gosh,,, that's a lot of pre-finish prep time for the finishing. I need a tumbler!

I got into a serious discussion with myself about this while I sat at a coffee shop drinkng a 20oz cup that cost $2.00. And that was not the fancy made-for-me stuff. They handed me a cup and pointed across the room at the carafe that was filled who knows how long ago...

[Loyd]

Dano,
At just 1 min. apiece to handle, deburr and rough up that equals rounded, 6 hours. My shop time is $55.00 hr. At .20 cents per inch w/no pierce charge and no material charge that is $2.40 each for cutting and $330.00 for shop time. If you cut them some slack and charge $2 ea and $330 shop time for prep that equals $1030.00 total. That comes out to 2.94 ea w/o powder. Some jobs get to the point that they are not worth messing with even though you don't like to pass up any jobs.
Loyd

[AnotherDano]

Dano,
At just 1 min. apiece to handle, deburr and rough up that equals rounded, 6 hours. My shop time is $55.00 hr. At .20 cents per inch w/no pierce charge and no material charge that is $2.40 each for cutting and $330.00 for shop time. If you cut them some slack and charge $2 ea and $330 shop time for prep that equals $1030.00 total. That comes out to 2.94 ea w/o powder. Some jobs get to the point that they are not worth messing with even though you don't like to pass up any jobs.
Loyd

Thanks Loyd. That is a bit better.
Adding the suggested $1.00/each from the powder coaters advising me, the price of $4.00/ea.

I've floated $4.75 and they will give me their response tomorrow.

I guess what sticks in my head is knowing they will probably throw away more than that amount per person in leftover donuts after the morning coffee breaks.

And another note for you, Loys; Thanks for all the good advice and caring you've given to us here for such a long time.
You're my hero - just wanted to let you know that you are appreciated.

Dano

[Loyd]

Dano,
Thank you for the kind words. I think you have come up with a solid price that will pay for your aggravation. I hate to do production. I like to make production happen.....but I don't like doing it!
Loyd

[COWBOY]

Dano,
Considering the size of the part and the quantity, I would suggest you look into a cement mixer. Tumbling houses can recommend mediums to do a pretty good job of cleaning.
Just my 2 pennies.

[AnotherDano]

Dano,
Considering the size of the part and the quantity, I would suggest you look into a cement mixer. Tumbling houses can recommend mediums to do a pretty good job of cleaning.
Just my 2 pennies.

Well worth two cents, Cowboy.
This is a one-time shot. But the next time I get something like this I'm sure I'll question my decision to skip the purchase.

I heard about a guy who could use a little extra for groceries. He already has two part time jobs and his hours are being cut back on both. I'm trying to get in touch with him with an offer to slip him a couple of bucks here & there. Paying forward.

The dropouts are piling up under the table and the stack of carcass sheets are too. I probably wouldn't consider this if I was 30 years younger, but if he wants to clean out under the table when needed, I'll let him have the seven cents/pound for the whole lot of it. Not that I couldn't use an extra 20-30 bucks but I'm in better shape than he is right now.
This is a small town and I just think that's the way we ought to live in one.

[muzza]

I cut a heap of small parts (insects) for a garden center last week (just under 100) and after cleaning up the first 2 with a cup brush I decided to try the hydrochloric acid and water mix followed by a baking soda rinse.
I had a plastic storage container with a clip on lid put in about 10 litres (? 3 US Gallons)of water, added the balance of swimming pool hydrochloric acid (Muriatic) about a pint and left the parts in for about 4 hours. I then took them out and put them in another tub with half a small packet of Bicarbonate Soda to neatralize the acid. There were still a few small bits of dross on some but just quickly rubbing the pieces together in my hands as I then rinsed the under running water knocked that off. I then blew them dry with compressed air, threw in in a box and took them to my powder coater. Total labor time probably about 15 to 20 minutes.

[AnotherDano]

I cut a heap of small parts (insects) for a garden center last week (just under 100) and after cleaning up the first 2 with a cup brush I decided to try the hydrochloric acid and water mix followed by a baking soda rinse.
I had a plastic storage container with a clip on lid put in about 10 litres (? 3 US Gallons)of water, added the balance of swimming pool hydrochloric acid (Muriatic) about a pint and left the parts in for about 4 hours. I then took them out and put them in another tub with half a small packet of Bicarbonate Soda to neatralize the acid. There were still a few small bits of dross on some but just quickly rubbing the pieces together in my hands as I then rinsed the under running water knocked that off. I then blew them dry with compressed air, threw in in a box and took them to my powder coater. Total labor time probably about 15 to 20 minutes.

Another good idea that I should consider, thank you too.
Putting on some 'tooth' is something that I might not want to skip...
I have a piece that I wanted to let rust naturally, so I left it soaking in muriatic acid for about six hours and rinsed.
It's showing signs of rust in some places - after a week. Wyoming is kinda dry, ya know. Every few hours I spray it down with water and that's all I'm getting... Except for that snoutfull of the acid fumes. Ouch! Nasty stuff, straight out of the jug.
I'l like to leave it overnight but not IN the shop and I can't secure it (for safety reasons) outside.

[AnotherDano]

Update;

I got the order.
30% up-front charge and they are hand-walking that through the system to get a check cut tomorrow.
We're really a no-urgency community up here,,, Checks are cut only once a month.

[Loyd]

CONGRATULATIONS! Now comes the fun part!
Loyd

[AnotherDano]

CONGRATULATIONS! Now comes the fun part!
Loyd

Yep,,, lots of fun.

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[RobertJohnson]

That's cool that you got the job Dano! I definitely need to step my game up out here. Still trying to find that one thing everyone wants and needs out here.

[AnotherDano]

That's cool that you got the job Dano! I definitely need to step my game up out here. Still trying to find that one thing everyone wants and needs out here.

Good luck with finding that 'one thing', Robert.
Remember the movie that made 'that one thing' a common household phrase? Curley (Jacl Palance) was the character...

Ask the retailers what will be hot this year and they are looking for the same crystal ball that all of us need.
The salespeople for the mass-producers all seem to know; Whatever they are selling that week.

Most of the work I get on this scale is because somebody 'knows a guy' (me). I got the call to provide the Official Laramie Capitol Christmas Tree Ornament , just because someone was in a meeting when they discussed the need for one. Starting out like you are (and all of us have been there), be prepared to pass out a lot of freebees. Just be sure to put them in the right hands and it can pay off.

Every 'business consultant' will tell you to develop an 'elevator speech' and use it every time you can. Make it short, to-the-point and low pressure. You aren't selling a product - that turns people off - but inform folks that you are open for business and what it is you do. We both make the Bucking Horse & Rider. Use that here in Wyoming and ears turn your way.
You'll be surprised how many people will know exactly what you're taking about but will admit that they have no idea where to get one. Hand them a card and say 'now you do'. A brouchure with the BH&R prominent on the front and pictures inside of other things on the inside is even better.

[stdave66]

just a blip back to cleaning parts---Like 'Cowboy' said--cement mixer! Mine has been sitting in the garage forever, I pulled it out, loaded it with used tumble media we throw away from my real job, threw in the small parts, came back 1/2 hour later 95% of all dross was gone, edges smooth, clean parts! tapped off last bit of dross with hammer on the few it hung to, couple more minutes in tumbler, and on to the next batch. We even re-ran some small parts that had already been brushed and sanded. I use acid for removing mill scale but not going to all that trouble for dross removal. It worked so well I will almost say I won't put a brush or sander on anything again less than about 5" diameter. The only exception is if there is something with thin unsupported features sticking off the part, because tumbling will bend some of that. And of course if I would correctly set my cut speed around tight corners there would probably be nothing that needed tapped off. I had planned on trying the mixer idea, but Thanks 'Cowboy' for that last little nudge I needed to actually do it!