VERY Frustrating!

[Joe Jones]

You may know that I endorse PlasmaCam tables and DesignEdge software.

Well, I am now in Texas, and doing some DesignEdge training for a design team at a metal art company that puts all others to shame. I am completely blown away by the level of skill they put into these art pieces.

Anyway, we did a test today. He gave me a simple low-res raster image logo, and asked me to draw it in DesignEdge. No problem! Then they told me that their designers can create the multi-layered DXF file in less than 20 minutes in Adobe Illustrator. The PRESSURE!

I tried, but I was well over an hour, when I was still not finished with the vector file. I did NOT impress them.

So I went to BEST BUY tonight to see about buying a WACOM pen tablet. I figured ... all it does is REPLACE THE MOUSE with another human interface device that allows for more manual dexterity than a MOUSE, RIGHT? Imagine my surprise to learn that NOT ONLY will a stylus PEN or a FINGER on a TOUCH SCREEN LAPTOP not work with DesignEdge, but a pen tablet triggers the error message:

"This program requires direct control of the computer to run the machine and cannot run under remote access software. Please operate the software under direct control."

This "error message" was created when PlasmaCam realized that people were using TEAM VIEWER to run their shop PC from the comfort of a tower or laptop in their comfortable homes. PlasmaCam did not like the fact that people were circumventing the purchase of a $498.00 second seat, so they put the kibosh on that via v4.5xx

I can understand their reasoning for not allowing a remote PC to run the table, but a pen tablet plugged directly into the PC via a USB cable is NOT "remote access to the software!" It is only using something other than a MOUSE to control the cursor and user input. Likewise, digital tablets like the TRACE LOGIC boards, and the 32-button digitizing mouse with the crosshairs are ALSO not able to be used with DesignEdge.

I'm sorry ... but this is VECTOR SOFTWARE, and users should be able to use MANY different physical input devices.... mouses, track balls, digitizers, gyro mouses, PEN TABLETS ...

So I sent a rather ... peeved ... text to Jason tonight, and I am sure he is not happy about it. I don't care! I looked like a d*mned FOOL trying to TRACE the logo with the spline tool, while their team uses adjustable node curving tools and other drawing tools that are on a PROFESSIONAL level.

I am so sick of all of the effort put into preventing some BOZO from hacking the software, while I go year after year with virtually NO improvements. Okay ... So ... The GENESIS table is being released. Yippee! I would love to sing the praises of it, but SOMETHING has to be done about this DRACONIAN control over the use of DesignEdge software.

Joe

[djreiswig]

Why not use Adobe Illustrator with your new toy? Surely you can save in a format that your table is able to utilize.

[Joe Jones]

The training I am doing now in Texas is for a company that uses two (non-PlasmaCam) plasma tables. They want to use DesignEdge for the vector designs, along with Illustrator and other programs. I am just frustrated by the fact that DesignEdge ONLY allows a MOUSE to be used. No pen tablet, no digitizing tablet, no TRACE LOGIC board, nothing.

Just LOOK at the stuff they are making, using Illustrator, and PlasmaCAM (V1.20 )

http://militarymetalart.com/

Joe

[Joe Jones]

Sure, you've seen the flag ... But have you ever seen one like this?

Joe

MMA TATTERED FLAG.jpg (80.88 KiB) Viewed 2591 times

MMA TATTERED FLAG.jpg (80.88 KiB) Viewed 2591 times

[ROKCRLER]

I checked out their website, very impressive pieces!

[adbuch]

Why not use Adobe Illustrator with your new toy? Surely you can save in a format that your table is able to utilize.

I do use and prefer Illustrator for certain tasks. It will export as svg, dxf, and several other formats.

[tcaudle]

I think you are confusing an artist with a CAD/mechanical design person/ Tablets are great for someone that can sit down with a blank piece of paper and a pencil and draw "art" . If they are proficient in AI they SHOULD be able to run circles around you in more artistic projects. A LOT of plasma is NOT artwork,its brackets and shapes used in assembly and fabrication.

I don't know if you have ever used a tablet but before you start banging your fist on your head, they are not for everyone. Been using CorelDraw, AI, Inkscape and other programs for years and I tried to transition to a large tablet with the custom zones for menu buttons . I never did enough free hand drawing to take full advantage of the device and even though I built a slide out drawer for it I was constantly hitting it and having it in my way. Honestly I am not an Artist , I am a Draftsman and Engineer. I can't sketch. Its a skill-set I don't possess, yet I ran a metal cutting business for several years in the early 200's and did fine with it.

Inkscape will take various formas of input including tablets. I am not talented enough to make use of it

Sometimes it takes seeing the other side of the fence to make you realize there is more than one way to skin a possum. We all tend to be comfortable with what we have invested time and money into.

Get yourself a tablet that is WIn compatible and get a copy of Inkscape 1.3.2 and load it on a high performance PC (fast high res video) . Not having used Adobe or Corel the interface will be foreign to you but check out a few tutorials. Since its not made specifically to just cut plasma there are tools you don't need ( but are really neat including doing multi colour sweeps as fills . See if using a tablet with a true ILLUSTRATION package is something you can work with . You learning curve will be steeper since you have learned one way (only) to do things and its like learning a different language.

The entire premise of PCAM is based on it being used by a non-artist , non CAD, lay person with limited computer skills and that wants a table to use in their garage to sell cut outs. Its supposed to be "brain-dead" easy . They sell it as: You scan , load and push a button to get a cu tout. Its the sizzle not the steak. "Look how easy it is to use this table, and look at all the pretty things you can make with your new PC tablet". Their 10 page color brochure has always had 9 pages of what you can cut and sparse information about the actual machine or the software. Its made to be training wheels for Plasma Cutting!. Honestly their target market is not a high end production or fabrication shop its the hobby level home shop market. It one time they were the ONLY vendor in that market of any size. Not so any more. You can find tables form 2500 to 25,000 .

Look at he bright side: By buying up all those old tables you may end up being the only source for old servo motors , old controllers and some of the Z axis parts that are custom. Only problem you may face is that there are THOUSANDS of them out there and most need expensive software upgrades .I predict that more and more PCAM tables will become available at scrap prices . You just have to bet on the number of users that sill wan to keep using the 20 year old technology.

above all....Keep on Cuttin'

[adbuch]

I think you are confusing an artist with a CAD/mechanical design person/ Tablets are great for someone that can sit down with a blank piece of paper and a pencil and draw "art" . If they are proficient in AI they SHOULD be able to run circles around you in more artistic projects. A LOT of plasma is NOT artwork,its brackets and shapes used in assembly and fabrication.

I don't know if you have ever used a tablet but before you start banging your fist on your head, they are not for everyone. Been using CorelDraw, AI, Inkscape and other programs for years and I tried to transition to a large tablet with the custom zones for menu buttons . I never did enough free hand drawing to take full advantage of the device and even though I built a slide out drawer for it I was constantly hitting it and having it in my way. Honestly I am not an Artist , I am a Draftsman and Engineer. I can't sketch. Its a skill-set I don't possess, yet I ran a metal cutting business for several years in the early 200's and did fine with it.

Inkscape will take various formas of input including tablets. I am not talented enough to make use of it

Sometimes it takes seeing the other side of the fence to make you realize there is more than one way to skin a possum. We all tend to be comfortable with what we have invested time and money into.

Get yourself a tablet that is WIn compatible and get a copy of Inkscape 1.3.2 and load it on a high performance PC (fast high res video) . Not having used Adobe or Corel the interface will be foreign to you but check out a few tutorials. Since its not made specifically to just cut plasma there are tools you don't need ( but are really neat including doing multi colour sweeps as fills . See if using a tablet with a true ILLUSTRATION package is something you can work with . You learning curve will be steeper since you have learned one way (only) to do things and its like learning a different language.

The entire premise of PCAM is based on it being used by a non-artist , non CAD, lay person with limited computer skills and that wants a table to use in their garage to sell cut outs. Its supposed to be "brain-dead" easy . They sell it as: You scan , load and push a button to get a cu tout. Its the sizzle not the steak. "Look how easy it is to use this table, and look at all the pretty things you can make with your new PC tablet". Their 10 page color brochure has always had 9 pages of what you can cut and sparse information about the actual machine or the software. Its made to be training wheels for Plasma Cutting!. Honestly their target market is not a high end production or fabrication shop its the hobby level home shop market. It one time they were the ONLY vendor in that market of any size. Not so any more. You can find tables form 2500 to 25,000 .

Look at he bright side: By buying up all those old tables you may end up being the only source for old servo motors , old controllers and some of the Z axis parts that are custom. Only problem you may face is that there are THOUSANDS of them out there and most need expensive software upgrades .I predict that more and more PCAM tables will become available at scrap prices . You just have to bet on the number of users that sill wan to keep using the 20 year old technology.

above all....Keep on Cuttin'

Tom - very well said!!

David

[Joe Jones]

The DHC2 tables are still strong contenders. The software is capable, and assuming PlasmaCam will continue to provide replacements parts, it is still worthy of having. The new GENESIS tables are using the same software (for now) but it will receive its own version in a while.

I hope to make the mods to these tables and sell them, either as working tables with DE licenses, or as so many PARTS that would be used to convert DHC2 tables to a 4x8 format.

I picked up the table in the San Antonio area yesterday. A nice DHC2, with two additional NEW motors (gantry and carriage) for only $200.00, so I am still smiling.

I will jump through the hoops of registering these tables into my name, and perhaps add one or more upgrades tot he DE license, so when they are sold, they will have "The Big Three" upgrades and the Grate Elevator system installed. If they sell WELL, I may offer an exchange, where people would keep their table leg with the serial number, and ship the other three legs to me, along with the four frame members. I could convert them and sell them to someone else ... Rinse and Repeat

The NICE thing about the grate elevator is that it does NOT require the customizable size upgrade, or the pipe cutting upgrade. Owners will be able to place an oil drum onto the grates and cut patterns into the side. If this is added as a 4x4 to 4x8 extension, then 1/2 of the table would have the elevator and the other half would be the standard height.

My itinerary changed. I did not make it to see Jason at Mountain City, TX on this visit. Also, the stop in Dallas was cancelled, so I am already in Texarkana, TX. for the night, and will be home by the afternoon of the 15th.

Joe

[Jack of all trades]

I just dusted off my wacom tablet, just to find out I could no longer use it. Use other software, fine but I KNOW Design Edge. Will be calling Monday, probably to no avail. My first truck trace was with the wacom( is posted on this site) as well as other help I have done on this site. I only put it away because at the time if the pen was stored too close to the tablet it would radomly close other programs. Just thought it would be faster than a mouse.Example of one designed today.

Brian
(2)DHC2
ahc,ad,os,cs,nesting,am,3D

[Joe Jones]

I just dusted off my wacom tablet, just to find out I could no longer use it. Use other software, fine but I KNOW Design Edge. Will be calling Monday, probably to no avail.

DesignEdge will NOT allow you to use a pen tablet, because the software sees it as "remote access" to the mouse and keyboard, ala TeamViewer and other remote access programs. Plasmacam put the kibosh on ANY remote access, and sadly, the pen tablet, a device IDEAL for use with DesignEdge software, is blocked. I know. STUPID!

Joe

[adbuch]

I just dusted off my wacom tablet, just to find out I could no longer use it. Use other software, fine but I KNOW Design Edge. Will be calling Monday, probably to no avail. My first truck trace was with the wacom( is posted on this site) as well as other help I have done on this site. I only put it away because at the time if the pen was stored too close to the tablet it would radomly close other programs. Just thought it would be faster than a mouse.Example of one designed today.

Brian
(2)DHC2
ahc,ad,os,cs,nesting,am,3D

If you really want to use your pen, there are other programs that will work for you. Then import it to Design Edge for editing. Or just use the Spline or the Bulge tool. I have done many manual traces in Design Edge using nothing but L and Z with great results.

David

[adbuch]

Here are several I have done using only the L and Z tools for the drawing.
David

[Jack of all trades]

My prefered method is the spline along with l,b,z,q,control h ,and r. I was just hoping to use the tablet again without learning another program. Oh well I'll just have to stick to the mouse clicks. Another from today

[Joe Jones]

I do have a LOGIC TRACE 44"x60" tablet that I have never used. I will assume that DesignEdge will also not allow that device to replace a mouse. Too bad, because that would be awesome.

I also have a large touch screen monitor that I have never tried to use with DesignEdge. I wonder if THAT will allow me to use the screen and either fingers or a pen in place of a mouse. I am guessing that it won't.

I do like DesignEdge software, but the Draconian controls over its use make it a bitter pill to swallow.

Joe

[adbuch]

My prefered method is the spline along with l,b,z,q,control h ,and r. I was just hoping to use the tablet again without learning another program. Oh well I'll just have to stick to the mouse clicks. Another from today

That turned out great! Very nicely done.
David