another beveled edge cut case
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Re: another beveled edge cut case
Ok, the votes are in, and the results are... B.O.A.T.(s)
I get it. More is better. Step far away from liv'n on the margin. Well that continues the theme of getting the 'beast' into service.
But... I have to consider the Bidenomics of this decision so I'm going with plan B. I'm optimistic I can do a pretty decent rebuild on the old unit, and to save a few hundred I will salvage the condenser, 1 qt. desiccant dryer, and filters from Kobalt 'little boy', strip 'er down to factory config. I may also just unplug it, keep it around for my off-site portable 110v unit, and use the tank for expanded storage in the shop. Winner winner chicken dinner.
I appreciate everyone's input and advice, well done. I'll report back when I'm make'n sparks again. Thanks.
I get it. More is better. Step far away from liv'n on the margin. Well that continues the theme of getting the 'beast' into service.
But... I have to consider the Bidenomics of this decision so I'm going with plan B. I'm optimistic I can do a pretty decent rebuild on the old unit, and to save a few hundred I will salvage the condenser, 1 qt. desiccant dryer, and filters from Kobalt 'little boy', strip 'er down to factory config. I may also just unplug it, keep it around for my off-site portable 110v unit, and use the tank for expanded storage in the shop. Winner winner chicken dinner.
I appreciate everyone's input and advice, well done. I'll report back when I'm make'n sparks again. Thanks.
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Re: another beveled edge cut case
I can completely appreciate the cost aspect of this which is why I went with option B. Things are tight these days for many of us so often it's best to work with what you got. Hoe your back up and cutting shortly. Good luck.
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Re: another beveled edge cut case
I'm just checking in to say I'm still here I received my parts for the plan B 11.5scfm rebuild. I was distracted with a few paying jobs recently too, so I rolled back my table setup to the PW Cut60 unit to handle that work.
btw- I'm not sure I mentioned it yet, but shortly after I put the PMX65 into brief service last month, albeit making mostly test cuts blah blah blah, and being so impressed with the power and necessary speed of the PMX65, I revisited the PW Cut60 cut charts and noticed I was actually cutting at 70% or so the speed given in their charts. Last summer I recalibrated my cut speeds to the new UPM105 Tecmo torch I had gotten (uses PMX45 consumables), so differences from prior PTM60 torch were expected. What I didn't realize was, at about the same time, I experienced a partial failure in the Cut60's output capacity, presumable due to cutting last summer while on generator and having the breaker pop a couple of times until I got the cutting current dialed down for the 9KW generator to tolerate it. Anyway, after writing PW to inquire about help with diagnosis, it wasn't 5 minutes after sending the memo that PW replied that they will have a new Cut60 shipped out to me that day, to send the old one back. That is of course outstanding customer service, could be the best in the universe. Well anyway, after putting the new Cut60 back into service that past few weeks, sure enough I'm cutting 25% faster with it (but still 1/2 the speed of PMX65), while the Kobalt "little boy" air supply is keeping up just fine, and the cut edges are square. Life has been good for a few weeks. And for even sweeter fun, I took delivery of a well used 350 lb. anvil I purchased at auction last winter (crazy price of $2/lb !), it had been waiting for a ride to NC from IL for 6 months. That beast, I call it Fat Man, rings like bell, its a good one. It as more bounce and rebound than a rubber ball.
So its about time to get the old 11.5scfm air unit rebuilt, soon to be called "The Phoenix", I hope.
I'm not planning any anvil shots over the 4th of July, but I have to do something with the now out of service 85 pounder, and I have a great base anvil to shoot from. The weekend is just beginning
btw- I'm not sure I mentioned it yet, but shortly after I put the PMX65 into brief service last month, albeit making mostly test cuts blah blah blah, and being so impressed with the power and necessary speed of the PMX65, I revisited the PW Cut60 cut charts and noticed I was actually cutting at 70% or so the speed given in their charts. Last summer I recalibrated my cut speeds to the new UPM105 Tecmo torch I had gotten (uses PMX45 consumables), so differences from prior PTM60 torch were expected. What I didn't realize was, at about the same time, I experienced a partial failure in the Cut60's output capacity, presumable due to cutting last summer while on generator and having the breaker pop a couple of times until I got the cutting current dialed down for the 9KW generator to tolerate it. Anyway, after writing PW to inquire about help with diagnosis, it wasn't 5 minutes after sending the memo that PW replied that they will have a new Cut60 shipped out to me that day, to send the old one back. That is of course outstanding customer service, could be the best in the universe. Well anyway, after putting the new Cut60 back into service that past few weeks, sure enough I'm cutting 25% faster with it (but still 1/2 the speed of PMX65), while the Kobalt "little boy" air supply is keeping up just fine, and the cut edges are square. Life has been good for a few weeks. And for even sweeter fun, I took delivery of a well used 350 lb. anvil I purchased at auction last winter (crazy price of $2/lb !), it had been waiting for a ride to NC from IL for 6 months. That beast, I call it Fat Man, rings like bell, its a good one. It as more bounce and rebound than a rubber ball.
So its about time to get the old 11.5scfm air unit rebuilt, soon to be called "The Phoenix", I hope.
I'm not planning any anvil shots over the 4th of July, but I have to do something with the now out of service 85 pounder, and I have a great base anvil to shoot from. The weekend is just beginning
- acourtjester
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Re: another beveled edge cut case
Thanks for the reply, may be help to other in the future, these things build the knowledge base of PS. Much better to having fun at work then constant problems, paying jobs adds to that too. Having a big anvil you can work out any frustrations you come across.
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
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Re: another beveled edge cut case
update: I finally found the time to finish the new shop compressor build. It turned out to be more new than I was planning on . I didn't like the way the 20gal horizontal tank rebuild was going, the overall profile and dryer parts mounting didn't fit my shop floor well. So I opted to get a 30gal vertical tank 5.5 CFM (@120vac), swap out the compressor and motor with 11.5 CFM units (@240vac) that I already had, and gear down the compressor speed to yield 8.2 CFM to better match (w +cfm diff) my air consumption while plasma cutting. I'm going to put the 5.5 CFM and 120vac motor on the 20gal tank to use as my portable unit.
I haven't had the time yet to resume pmx65 (the beast) test cutting, so no new news on that front. I've got numerous wood and metal projects backed up in the schedule now, so will concentrate on getting those complete for now, several 'honey do...' projects in that mix, gotta keep the boss happy
More results soon I hope.
I haven't had the time yet to resume pmx65 (the beast) test cutting, so no new news on that front. I've got numerous wood and metal projects backed up in the schedule now, so will concentrate on getting those complete for now, several 'honey do...' projects in that mix, gotta keep the boss happy
More results soon I hope.
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Re: another beveled edge cut case
Nice looking setup! Hopefully this will help you to achieve improved cut quality with your parts.
David
David
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Re: another beveled edge cut case
@adbuch- thanks.
The air is actually dryer than my previous 'little boy' Kobalt 4.5cfm unit because this new one has the Motor Guard 60 final filter, which also traps any residual moisture that may get through the 1 Qt. desiccant dryer. The sight glass on the desiccant dryer is not too reliable of an indicator. Its easy to check the MG filter though, so I've been doing that weekly if not daily during high use. After >4 hours of compressor runtime, so far so good on MG filter, still like new, no moisture that I can feel at all, and clean; more smudges from my grubby hands than from air flow.
I still have not re-setup the PMX65 beast and torch for more testing. Reason is- busy with jobs/projects but also because when plasma cutting with the PrimeWeld Cut60 and UPM105 torch, I'm getting absolute square edges, no appreciable dross bottom or top, and 100% continuous cutting at 45amps. Have cut 16ga, 14, 12, and 10ga HR with all perfect results. 12gaSS with equal or less dross as I got previously, with is slightly more than HR but not bad, easy cleanup. Net: the system is working great, I'm not anxious to change it.
I acquired the PMX65 because it was pre-Sync gen and used one time, and for a great price. And I thought cutting 3x faster would be nice to have. I failed to anticipate the domino effect of having a CNC machine with high mechanical resonance (due to high center of gravity and insufficient stiffening components). To compensate for the mech resonance, I reduce acceleration config to a mere 400mm/sec2. This then translates into long deceleration distances when cornering and stopping when running at such high speeds as the PMX65 is optimized to cut at, which sets up the condition for more dross bottom side at corners than I care to tolerate and clean up. And previously, I was not able to dial in the lower amps and slower cut speed with the unit, even for the few cuts where I had the sufficient air flow and pressure before tank and compressor capacity expired.
Some good new/tips to pass along in this journey...
I built another of the HF dry air supply systems as pictured for a buddy just last week. Rather than use the copper tube w ball valve water collector, I tried a Milton water/filter trap ($50 amazon) rated for 250psi in place of it and it worked great, trapping nearly all moisture condensed up stream, leaving the tank empty of most residual water from the former condenser/trap. That's a net zero $ since the copper sweat fittings and ball valve are getting expensive these days. I also built the second unit with a soft copper tubing (as for flare fittings) as the condenser, 6 passes 14" long. Works great, savings of $60 over the purchased transmission cooler tube and fin unit, and another $50 in saved sweat fittings for the rigid copper tubing alternative.
Second- I read recently about ceramic anit-spatter spray for MIG welding tips/nozzles, but the brand recommended- Loctite, is $60/can. I had some CRC brand Dry Moly Lube spray from another project so decided to give it a try the other day on my plasma nozzle tip and mach shield. WOW! after 500 starts cutting 10gaHR, 45 mins of cutting, the nozzle and orifice still look new! No appreciable soot, spatter stick, or wear. Amazing.
Third- improved my gcode for the torch touch-off cycle. read about it here- https://forum.sheetcam.com/t/reverse-pr ... h-off/8114 . This improvement, one line of gcode, virtually eliminates the effect of flex on smaller gauge metal such as 16 - 12ga. when running the torch touch-off cycle with a probe limit switch. Would work for ohmic too but likely not needed unless that method has consistently poor electrical contact.
As for the future of the PMX65 on my current machine, it's down the list of priorities for now, but keeping it for another CNC someday expecting it may be able to handle the BEAST.
Thank you all for your help in sorting things out the past several months.
The air is actually dryer than my previous 'little boy' Kobalt 4.5cfm unit because this new one has the Motor Guard 60 final filter, which also traps any residual moisture that may get through the 1 Qt. desiccant dryer. The sight glass on the desiccant dryer is not too reliable of an indicator. Its easy to check the MG filter though, so I've been doing that weekly if not daily during high use. After >4 hours of compressor runtime, so far so good on MG filter, still like new, no moisture that I can feel at all, and clean; more smudges from my grubby hands than from air flow.
I still have not re-setup the PMX65 beast and torch for more testing. Reason is- busy with jobs/projects but also because when plasma cutting with the PrimeWeld Cut60 and UPM105 torch, I'm getting absolute square edges, no appreciable dross bottom or top, and 100% continuous cutting at 45amps. Have cut 16ga, 14, 12, and 10ga HR with all perfect results. 12gaSS with equal or less dross as I got previously, with is slightly more than HR but not bad, easy cleanup. Net: the system is working great, I'm not anxious to change it.
I acquired the PMX65 because it was pre-Sync gen and used one time, and for a great price. And I thought cutting 3x faster would be nice to have. I failed to anticipate the domino effect of having a CNC machine with high mechanical resonance (due to high center of gravity and insufficient stiffening components). To compensate for the mech resonance, I reduce acceleration config to a mere 400mm/sec2. This then translates into long deceleration distances when cornering and stopping when running at such high speeds as the PMX65 is optimized to cut at, which sets up the condition for more dross bottom side at corners than I care to tolerate and clean up. And previously, I was not able to dial in the lower amps and slower cut speed with the unit, even for the few cuts where I had the sufficient air flow and pressure before tank and compressor capacity expired.
Some good new/tips to pass along in this journey...
I built another of the HF dry air supply systems as pictured for a buddy just last week. Rather than use the copper tube w ball valve water collector, I tried a Milton water/filter trap ($50 amazon) rated for 250psi in place of it and it worked great, trapping nearly all moisture condensed up stream, leaving the tank empty of most residual water from the former condenser/trap. That's a net zero $ since the copper sweat fittings and ball valve are getting expensive these days. I also built the second unit with a soft copper tubing (as for flare fittings) as the condenser, 6 passes 14" long. Works great, savings of $60 over the purchased transmission cooler tube and fin unit, and another $50 in saved sweat fittings for the rigid copper tubing alternative.
Second- I read recently about ceramic anit-spatter spray for MIG welding tips/nozzles, but the brand recommended- Loctite, is $60/can. I had some CRC brand Dry Moly Lube spray from another project so decided to give it a try the other day on my plasma nozzle tip and mach shield. WOW! after 500 starts cutting 10gaHR, 45 mins of cutting, the nozzle and orifice still look new! No appreciable soot, spatter stick, or wear. Amazing.
Third- improved my gcode for the torch touch-off cycle. read about it here- https://forum.sheetcam.com/t/reverse-pr ... h-off/8114 . This improvement, one line of gcode, virtually eliminates the effect of flex on smaller gauge metal such as 16 - 12ga. when running the torch touch-off cycle with a probe limit switch. Would work for ohmic too but likely not needed unless that method has consistently poor electrical contact.
As for the future of the PMX65 on my current machine, it's down the list of priorities for now, but keeping it for another CNC someday expecting it may be able to handle the BEAST.
Thank you all for your help in sorting things out the past several months.
Last edited by bLouChipBlacksmith on Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: another beveled edge cut case
Awesome, great post. Glad to hear everything is getting dialed in for you. I don;t blame you for holding off on the HT65 install, the important thing is to get good clean cuts so if your achieving that it would be foolish to waste time changing it. Well done. Post some pics of your cuts if you get a chance.
- SegoMan DeSigns
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Re: another beveled edge cut case
Progress!
don't forget the tank drain, a lot of people kinda forget that little valve.. I use an automatic tank drain like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274630023666?_ ... BM6OXy9cVk
don't forget the tank drain, a lot of people kinda forget that little valve.. I use an automatic tank drain like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274630023666?_ ... BM6OXy9cVk
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Re: another beveled edge cut case
@segoman- yes, agreed. I check it daily, but that's what I'm saying about this new condenser setup with the Milton water trap/filter- its so good at trapping the residual air moisture and condensed water droplets that there is nothing but spit getting by it and into the tank, it's amazing. This unit has an interesting turbine blade shaped static baffle just inside the air inlet port facing downward, so its the diameter of the black bowl cylinder. I suspect this little gadget is making the incoming air spin like a tornado in the cylinder before flowing through the sintered brass element to the output port. While spinning the air, centrifugal force causes the water droplets and finer mist to collect on the side of the cylinder/bowl and drop down to the bottom. When the compressor shuts down and the check valve bleeds the compressor to tank line, the automatic drain on the water trap opens to pee. I read about centrifugal water separators like this, even bought one (3x more than this unit) but I haven't had to use it since this unit does the job just fine, much to my surprise.
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Re: another beveled edge cut case
@weldguy- photos as requested... its slim pick'ins . I did a water pan cleanout just before a large job on Tues. These first 3 photos are of drops. All recent work products have left the shop. The parts in these photos have not be flappered or otherwise cleaned.
PWCut60, UPM105 torch, first 3 are 16ga.HR, PMX30xp-30A nozzle (fits the PMX45 torch head), unshielded, 30A, 0.9mm kerf, 2200mm/m, 4mm PH, 1.7mm CH. The nozzle had 200 starts on it already when used on these parts, and these are the drop parts, so the edge is the worst case :0. Photos 1 and 2 are bottom side, 3 is top side view. I used to dread cutting 16gaHR due to dross cleanup bottom side, but now with the new reverse torch touch-off gcode/cycle cuts are as good as larger gauges. Edge flex is no longer an issue during torch touch-off so I get very accurate PH and ITH/CH.
same machine and torch, 10gaHR, PMX45 nozzle, shielded, 45A, 1.3mm kerf, 1500mm/m, 3.7 PH, 1.5 CH. The nozzle was new and sprayed with CRC Dry Moly Lube, as was shield. This part, both photos, is not a drop. Photo view is of bottom.
PWCut60, UPM105 torch, first 3 are 16ga.HR, PMX30xp-30A nozzle (fits the PMX45 torch head), unshielded, 30A, 0.9mm kerf, 2200mm/m, 4mm PH, 1.7mm CH. The nozzle had 200 starts on it already when used on these parts, and these are the drop parts, so the edge is the worst case :0. Photos 1 and 2 are bottom side, 3 is top side view. I used to dread cutting 16gaHR due to dross cleanup bottom side, but now with the new reverse torch touch-off gcode/cycle cuts are as good as larger gauges. Edge flex is no longer an issue during torch touch-off so I get very accurate PH and ITH/CH.
same machine and torch, 10gaHR, PMX45 nozzle, shielded, 45A, 1.3mm kerf, 1500mm/m, 3.7 PH, 1.5 CH. The nozzle was new and sprayed with CRC Dry Moly Lube, as was shield. This part, both photos, is not a drop. Photo view is of bottom.