I want a fixture table

[Scratch]

I have a pretty beefy welding table that I really like. It has a one inch thick 48"x 72" top on it, that has a pretty good bow in it. I'd say at the worst spot it's almost 1/4" of bow and after all these years, I'd really like to get a flat table. Actually I want a flat fixture table is what I want. I want it to be at least 1/2" thick, and have 5/8" holes on a 4" grid. I have more time than money though so my options are controlled by my bank account.

1. Buy a complete cast, machined, fixture table like Fireball, Kovosu, Arcflat, etc... (My wallet is full of holes, so this is a hard pass)

2. Buy a kit table made from laser cut pieces that I weld together like a CertiFlat or from a bunch of other places that sell laser cut kits.

3. buy a 30 dollar set of plans for a kit table, then bring those to a laser cutter and have them cut me a kit.

4. Buy a 1/2" sheet of steel and drill the holes myself, then mount it to my table.

5. Have my 1" top blanchard ground then drill the holes myself and set it back on my table.


My table is made out of 2x2 1/4" wall tubing and has some good cross bracing on the top so I "think" I'd be ok for flatness if I were to go with option 4 or 5 and I don't think I'd need the vertical cross bracing like some of the "You weld" kits, but I guess I'm not sure. I also don't really care about the holes on the sides of those kit tables.

I don't have a problem drilling the holes and I have a good friend that already offered to let me borrow his mag drill. I'm trying to do this for as inexpensive as I can.

If I go with a "You Weld" kit I'm concerned that I'll have weld distortion, but I don't really hear much about distortion on those kit tables. Are those designed to lock in place pretty good and I don't really have to worry about distortion?

I imagine that buying a new sheet is probably about the same price as blanchard grinding my sheet, but I'll find out tomorrow when I call them.

I don't think I want to plasma cut the holes in my table. I want the holes and pattern to be very precise and I have noticed that my 18 year old table has started to lose a little bit of accuracy.

Any input from the masses?

[adbuch]

This is the one I use for fixturing. I think I paid $2499 each with free shipping probably 5 or 6 years ago.

Rhino Carts trick tools.jpg

https://www.trick-tools.com/StrongHand- ... 0-K1-10380

Then I added some additional tooling. You can click on the links below to see some pictures of some of the setups I have used with my Rhino Carts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SsDsKC4MvY7FEAkU6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xdUae3eoVWjbSrL7

I have a 1" thick steel welding table that I built about 40 years ago. I think it's about 30" x 72" in size, and it was a remnant from a much larger piece that I purchased from Superior Steel here in Tucson. I took my straight edge to check the remnants they had, and this one is actually very flat - probably or within 1/32" or less. Otherwise I was planning to have it blanchard ground. I didn't want to drill holes in it, other than the single 3/4" hole that I drilled in the center to add an eye bolt to lift it out of the truck when I brought it home from the steel supplier. I also use it as a work bench and don't want a bunch of holes in it where things can fall thru.

20171204_003116_resized.jpg

What will it cost to have your existing table blanchard ground? If it isn't too much, I think I would go ahead and do that and then drill some holes using a mag drill with annular cutters (not drill bits). The trick here will be to lay out your hole pattern very accurately to drill your holes. How accurate do you think you need your hole spacing and grid squareness? Also - what sorts of things do you intend to "fixture", and what sort of tolerances to you need to hold for the finished items? I think Tom will probably chime in and show us some of the diy tooling he has made.

David

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Once upon a time I showed up to my favorite metal supplier.. Hey Steve we got something you may like! (Can you say platen table at scrape iron price? ) I had one ripped into pieces for the center section. I used slip tubing for pockets so it can be expanded as needed and vises ect, slid into place.

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[TJS]

Check Out this thread. I made a vid. I made the fixture drilling plate then used my Mag drill. The vid shows how I use it. Yes it took quite a bit of time but satisfied with the results.

viewtopic.php?p=222530&hilit=mag+Drill#p222530

[Scratch]

Check Out this thread. I made a vid. I made the fixture drilling plate then used my Mag drill. The vid shows how I use it. Yes it took quite a bit of time but satisfied with the results.

viewtopic.php?p=222530&hilit=mag+Drill#p222530

I've watched your video a few times. It was very helpful. I see you went with 1/2" steel like I want to do. Do you think it's necessary to weld on the grid panels underneath with 1/2" thick plate? Assuming the frame of the table has enough grid work built into it...

I found a couple old pics I took of my table before I put the 1" top on. I can see where I would probably want to add in one more cross brace of 2X2 tubing near the front of this picture, but I don't know if it's really necessary to do a whole 6" grid pattern underneath like you did. What do you think? I don't think I'd ever use the holes on the edge of the table, but that's just me. Have you ever really used those edge holes on your table?

image1.jpg

table_11.jpg

[adbuch]

Scratch - the table frame you show is more than sufficient to support any top you wish to add to it. Where you place your holes will depend on what particular tasks you intend to perform. My fixture tables (rhino carts) have holes out by the edges, and I do use these upon occasion. My tables are 30" x 48" and when I put them together I can get either 30" x 96" or 48" x 60" working surface. If you do use a fixture for drilling like TJ shows, be aware that there may be a cumulative error created as you work your way from one end of the table to the other - both in overall hole spacing and in squareness of your hole grid pattern.

David

[Scratch]

Scratch - the table frame you show is more than sufficient to support any top you wish to add to it. Where you place your holes will depend on what particular tasks you intend to perform. My fixture tables (rhino carts) have holes out by the edges, and I do use these upon occasion. My tables are 30" x 48" and when I put them together I can get either 30" x 96" or 48" x 60" working surface. If you do use a fixture for drilling like TJ shows, be aware that there may be a cumulative error created as you work your way from one end of the table to the other - both in overall hole spacing and in squareness of your hole grid pattern.

David

Thanks, by edge holes, I mean the holes that are drilled in the vertical surface around the perimeter of a lot of fixture tables. Not like your Rhino cart, but like this:

09CB9B11-7FB4-4AB4-9E40-A1BA736E2BD3.png

I don’t feel I would use that surface very much. I think those are more for modularity and being able to add on sections of tables and I think that my size of 48x60 should be enough for what I do.

[adbuch]

I agree! I would very rarely need holes for vertical mounting. I do have some special 90 degree brackets that came with my rhino cart to do just that - should the occasion arise. Yes - 4 ft. x 5 ft. sounds like a nice size working surface.

David

[Scratch]

Oops, I meant 48x72… that’s how big my table is now. I’m staying that size.

[adbuch]

Oops, I meant 48x72… that’s how big my table is now. I’m staying that size.

[Joe Jones]

Maybe I am missing something here. I do not understand why a welder would need a "straight edge flat" table. You are WELDING, not building parts for space shuttles. If the pieces you are using are straight, and the corners you set up are square, what difference does it make, if the center of the table is slightly bowed? Trailer hitches, braces and brackets, construction saddles, bridge parts, etc. I do not recall anything mentioned in my welding school about having a perfectly flat surface to weld upon.

I don't know ... MAYBE now that parts are laser cut, the extra precision can be appreciated? I can weld a square frame resting on a pile of logs. I am not following this desire for laser straight surfaces on fixture tables.

Joe

[abmetal]

I've been in design and fabrication for 45 years and I think those folks in the same profession would agree that one DOES need a FLAT surface to design and fab parts and assemblies. Saves time on shimming/measuring.

Allen

[Joe Jones]

I've been in design and fabrication for 45 years and I think those folks in the same profession would agree that one DOES need a FLAT surface to design and fab parts and assemblies. Saves time on shimming/measuring.

Allen

I haven't done enough "precision" welding to know. I suppose if you are building stainless steel cabinets etc., you don't want the thing to go wonky. My welding days consisted of items where perfect alignment was less critical.

Joe

[bLouChipBlacksmith]

I agree the accuracy of the table flatness is relative to the welding projects in general.
Here's a table I built which suits my welding and project purposes, and saves some floor space.
Enjoy.

[Scratch]

I definitely see the need for a very flat table, I don’t think I need it to be in the thousandths of an inch accuracy, but I can definitely see needing a much flatter table than the one I have now. I have one corner of my table that is the flattest and that’s where I make most of my stuff because of it. I worry enough about flatness that I have had to find “workarounds” for the problem.

[Joe Jones]

I definitely see the need for a very flat table, I don’t think I need it to be in the thousandths of an inch accuracy, but I can definitely see needing a much flatter table than the one I have now. I have one corner of my table that is the flattest and that’s where I make most of my stuff because of it. I worry enough about flatness that I have had to find “workarounds” for the problem.

I picture a table with holes for the clamps, and close THREADED holes for machine threaded bolts, perhaps 3/8" diameter. Like a "Bed of Nails," put bolts into all of the threaded holes, and rotate them up or down as needed, to level the surface beneath your work pieces. You can have lock nuts on top of the plate, to lock the height of each bolt. Adjust as needed.

Alternately, use 1/2" fine threaded bolts and weld large flat washers onto the heads, maybe 3" diameter. Use this field of round platforms to place your work on. Raise and lower the bolts as needed to level them. Clamp the work pieces to the flat washers on the bolt heads. A length of square tubing does not need a flat table surface. It needs two support points, one at each end, and both at the same level.

Joe

[Scratch]

A length of square tubing does not need a flat table surface. It needs two support points, one at each end, and both at the same level.

Joe

A lot of my builds are larger stuff like furniture, tables, frames etc… things that are made from 4 pieces of square tubing welded into a 3’ by 4’ rectangle or something.I want it to be as flat as possible. I’ve built coffee tables with granite tops on them. Granite tops are extremely flat and I don’t want them to wobble. Stuff like that is where you’d want a flat table.

[adbuch]

Scratch - here is another instance where flat is better. This is a custom gantry build where I most definitely want the linear rails to be parallel to each other. A flat surface is also useful when additional fixturing is used so that the fixturing block sides are actually perpendicular to the table for clamping up parts for welding, etc.
David

want it flat 1.jpg

I want it flat 2.jpg

[Scratch]

Ooooooooohh!! Look at all those fixtures! That nice flat table, all those holes!!

I’m so jealous!!

[abmetal]

ME TOO!!

Allen

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Here's a system for drilling the holes:

[Dirtmotor]

I sorta followed the way Lund made his template for holes works ,but need to use somethig better than a drywall square .

[SegoMan DeSigns]

I sorta followed the way Lund made his template for holes works ,but need to use something better than a drywall square .

Do a peck pattern on your plaz table then finish the holes with a mag drill.

[Scratch]

I have an Easyscribe and was thinking about drawing the grid lines with that, then just drill at the intersections. Might even be handy to have that grid layed out anyways.

[adbuch]

I have an Easyscribe and was thinking about drawing the grid lines with that, then just drill at the intersections. Might even be handy to have that grid layed out anyways.

Scratch - I think you've got exactly the right idea. If I had to drill a grid of holes using a mag drill, that's exactly the way I would do it. Particularly if you are using an annular cutter with the pointed center rod - this could be more accurate and easier to do than trying to center on a plasma cut point. I would just create an array with some small cross hairs - say 1/2" x 1/2" in size. Then just center up your mag drill point on each cross hair. No need to scribe grid lines across the entire table. My particular mag drill has a locking swivel base so that even with the magnet energized, the drill tip can be adjusted for a perfect alignment with the cross hair. Here is the grid I had in mind for a 4 x 8 table with 4" hole spacing.You could spray your table with dyechem for better scribe line visibility.

David

4x8 grid layout.jpg

4x8 grid layout 1.jpg

4 x 8 cross hair grid.dxf

Swivel base on my Hougen mag drill.

4x8 grid layout 2.jpg