PlasmaCam "Black Friday" and "end of the year" discount

[tinspark]

Whatever happened to the "black Friday" specials and the "end of the year" discounts on P-Cam programs and parts?.

I do not know what extra that they would make if anything bringing that back, but it may be a motivating factor for some to make a mechanical upgrade or even a software purchase. I remember waiting several years ago for this before I made an upgrade. would it be in their best interest to bring it back? I dont think that it would cost them anything since they really are not developing anything new. It seems like they could only benefit from this. a net of zero is zero, but a smaller percentage multiplied by a few or even several is better than nothing especially for those who may be on the fence, even for several years. imo

I am not seriously looking for an answer, but thought I might open up the box here to start a discussion on the topic, because there may be a few on here that are in this situation. Likely many here remember those days.

[robertspark]

are you not best suggesting this on the closed plasmacam forum?

I'm sure plasmacam read their own members / owners forum

https://www.owners-community.com/

[Joe Jones]

I think they came to the conclusion that no one was buying ANY upgrades because they were all waiting for the "Black Friday" discounts. so they dropped the price changes. If you want an upgrade, it is $998.00 on December 25th, and on January 1st, and on July 4th.

I think PlasmaCam could make some money by offering a "Full Monty Upgrade" for a discounted price, but then there is the problem of what price to set ... Some people already HAVE one, two or more of the upgrades, so they do not want to pay the same price as someone who only has the bare bones software and wants to upgrade to the Full Monty... or you may call it "The Whole Shebang!"

The problem then becomes, HOW do they pay their employees to work for a year, when NO upgrades are being purchased? Parts sales, sure. But that is not as profitable as simply activating an upgrade on your license, which costs them absolutely NOTHING to do.

MAYBE they could offer a "FULL UPGRADE DISCOUNT" meaning that you would buy ALL of the upgrades that YOUR license needed, at a discounted rate. So if you only needed nesting, customizable size and metric units, they could sell those three upgrades to YOU for only $2,095.00 instead of $2,994.00, giving you a 30% discount for upgrading your license to a "Full Monty" license.

I think they should develop a "sawhorse" rolling gantry tube for all of the people who bought their pipe cutting attachment. They could sell a basic gantry tube and motor on a rolling frame, where you would move the carriage assembly and torch over, and set up the pipe rollers etc.

They could sell a KIT that includes the gantry tube and motor, and an additional carriage assembly.

They could sell a Cadillac version which would ONLY require you to move the table's main wiring harness to the rolling pipe cutter, perhaps with some 10 foot EXTENSIONS to make the job simple.

In that way, they would not have HUNDREDS of table owners who have NEVER EVER USED their pipe cutting attachment, after discovering that you need to partially disassemble the table in order to use the $%^&* contraption! Count ME among them!

There is nothing wrong with their pipe cutter. It should just come with a spare gantry assembly, at the bare minimum. Perhaps a modified gantry that does not include the drive shaft and the yellow hardware for running along the rails, and the springs, and the cam follower bearings, but ONLY a solid mount for the gantry motor in the correct position. That is the only part of the gantry assembly that is used for pipe cutting.

PlasmaCam would make a lot of table owners very happy, if they developed such an accessory!

Joe


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[robertspark]

is plasmacam (and it's associated companies) just a cash cow now.... no need to develop anything, just keep it ticking over with bug fixes and minor tweaks

.... it it ain't broke.... don't fix (or improve) it

[rdj357]

is plasmacam (and it's associated companies) just a cash cow now.... no need to develop anything, just keep it ticking over with bug fixes and minor tweaks

.... it it ain't broke.... don't fix (or improve) it

This is accurate in my opinion.

[robertspark]

you may even find after a period of stability that they decide to do a product relaunch.....

new "improved" servo drives (old ones just happen to be obsolete and similar ones with the same flange and shaft cannot be sought) .... new "improved" user interface (bigger buttons, brighter contrast for those with vision issues).... new "improved" software (runs only on windows 11.... with touchscreen, haptic touch other improvements )

making the old offerings obsolete.... under the bonnet.... the finished product (cut metal in your hand) looks the same....

oh... all for $20k... with maybe $3k trade in or you have another unsupported boat anchor!

still a 3 axis xyz table of size 4'x4' or 4'x8' or 5'x10'.... but you KNOW you've just got to have one! (or several : )

[Joe Jones]

Depending on WHAT they released, I might buy one.

Joe

[robertspark]

Depending on WHAT they released, I might buy one.

Joe

just ONE Joe? how many 3d printers and laser engravers you currently got?

how many still in boxes?

[Joe Jones]

just ONE Joe? how many 3d printers and laser engravers you currently got?

how many still in boxes?

Well ... I am honestly not sure how many lasers I have now. I will be setting them up soon in the FrankenBarn. I can count them then, I guess. I have a few D1 PRO lasers from X-TOOL, and the P2, and the S1, and the F1, and soon another S1 with the screen printing setup. I made a pledge for the kickstarter for that one, so I am not going to back out of it. I have the LaserPecker, and the 30 Watt fiber laser, and that 30 Watt blue diode laser from OPT LASER from Poland that will be mounted onto my Samson 510 table. That was a circus, getting it through Customs!

I only have one 3D printer, the CreatBot printer so far, and one 3D scanner, the EINSTAR unit. Well, TWO 3D scanners, if you count the NextEngine 3D scanner I bought a few years ago.

My shop is a complete train wreck at the moment. I had a crew move everything out to the concrete pad so they could do spray foam insulation of the upper floor and attic, and then everything was brought back in and put "just anywhere." So my woodshop is completely non-functional at the moment. I will tackle it after the New Year.

The 510 is partially disassembled with no plasma cutter mounted at the moment. The 4x4 PlasmaCam table is BURIED in a room full of $%^& that needs to be sorted through. Right now, even with all of this stuff, I am not really in a position to make anything for anyone. Maybe in a few of weeks? Maybe in a month or two?

Right now, I am looking at an epic motorcycle tour to Anchorage, Alaska in 2024. Things are coming together on that plan, with a goal to leave Kentucky in mid May, and the shops MIGHT have to wait until I return in ... late November? I will have my first ZOOM meeting of interested parties very soon. Hopefully the gu'mint won't F%$^ it up with another PLANdemic, because I WILL NOT take the jabs!

Joe

[Joe Jones]

how many still in boxes?

Honestly, there are about 46 unopened boxes at the moment. Unless you count the 78 cases of floor tiles that are also still in boxes. Then it is WAY over a hundred.

Joe

[Joe Jones]

I really have to find an intense, fast paced FUSION 360 class or an online tutorial, or something.

Joe

[abmetal]

All I can say is.......WOW!

Allen

[robertspark]

Joe, I genuinely do not understand how you cope with so many bits going on, I try to live a simple life and even that gets complicated where I've got more pies on the go than fingers.... and that is just a simple life

[Joe Jones]

Joe, I genuinely do not understand how you cope with so many bits going on, I try to live a simple life and even that gets complicated where I've got more pies on the go than fingers.... and that is just a simple life

It is like that horse race game at the carnivals, where the profile of your horse inches along a horizontal track based on how well you squirt water through a small hole. My life is the game, and all of these tasks are each a different horse in the race. I never know which one will win!

I give one attention for a while, and another demands my focus, while yet another reminds me that it is lagging behind. I am not sure if I will get all of these things done, or ANY of these things done. But I do have MANY horses in the race!

Joe

[tinspark]

you may even find after a period of stability that they decide to do a product relaunch.....

new "improved" servo drives (old ones just happen to be obsolete and similar ones with the same flange and shaft cannot be sought) .... new "improved" user interface (bigger buttons, brighter contrast for those with vision issues).... new "improved" software (runs only on windows 11.... with touchscreen, haptic touch other improvements )

making the old offerings obsolete.... under the bonnet.... the finished product (cut metal in your hand) looks the same....

oh... all for $20k... with maybe $3k trade in or you have another unsupported boat anchor!

still a 3 axis xyz table of size 4'x4' or 4'x8' or 5'x10'.... but you KNOW you've just got to have one! (or several : )

When and if they do this I may do the Candcnc upgrade and steer away from P-Cam. Up til now, they have done just fine, and my little 2x2 machine which I later upgraded to a 4x4 is great for about 5 years or so now. but if I had and old bricked table with the old 3.11 software, I would likely just "kit-Shan" the P-am stuff and switch out to a more open source machine, and just bite the bullet on the learning curve, and would likely feel like I got the shaft from them. and never give them a penny again for not giving me any options but to either pay up or move on. Out of principle. they would have forced my hand to move on, for pulling that stunt...

[rdj357]

When and if they do this.....

If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his butt every time he hops.

I doubt you have anything to fear about having an obsolete table. I'd be shocked. I have, however, said for years that it is a bad business model to offer open-ended support with no lifespan.

[tinspark]

When and if they do this.....

If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his butt every time he hops.

I doubt you have anything to fear about having an obsolete table. I'd be shocked. I have, however, said for years that it is a bad business model to offer open-ended support with no lifespan.

No fear here. But once a company projects itself as being a "frog", a frog is always a frog. If they did it once they can do it again.
My comment above, about the potential of switching was just in principle and maybe motivated by a little empathy for the poor souls that had the old tables that feel shafted. and how they would feel. Some were suckered into buying a bricked machine out of ignorance, which may not be any fault of their own, except maybe not doing their research. I likely would feel shafted too. Many have read the plethora of negative posts on other forums on the net. They all add up and mean something, though many are obviously rants. A business that takes pride in their name would have found a way to nip it in the bud before it bloomed into a weed patch.

Too bad that plasmacam could not have found a way then to facilitate both versions. It would have alleviated a bunch of the negative PR. And many of the old table owners that left, never to return and who moved on to other tables, might just have bought a new DHC2 table anyway and kept the older 3.11 machine as a second table, which they may have just fixed and kept as a second table. And heck, once old 3.11 owners realized how well the updated machine and software works, many of the old table owners would have likely have went ahead and purchased their next table from them too. Which they would be able to jump right into the newer table and software without the dreaded learning curve downtime.
I had to deal with the public a lot at a fab shop that I worked at, and they had me read a book called Raving Fans : A Revolutionary Approach to Customer Service by Sheldon Bowles . I wont get into the concept, but PlasmaCams business model is TOTALLY opposite of what my former boss, and the owner of the company wanted me and his company to project to the public as outline in that book. Once a company proves to be a "frog" it is very hard if not impossible to convince anyone that they are actually a "prince".. Once that bad name is out there whether it is true or not... you guys know the rest of the story

maybe if candcnc or other companies had table conversion package options for the 3 tables that PLasmaCam produces back in the day it may have kept them in check a bit.

[Joe Jones]

PlasmaCam's success comes from the software, not the tables. DesignEdge is still better and faster than almost anything out there.

Joe

[rdj357]

You can search my posts of the last decade across this and every other forum where I participate and you will NEVER find one where I applaud their customer service business model. As Joe said, their software has been their cornerstone and even that lacks innovation in the last decade.

I don’t know how ownership of Plasmacam as a company looks into perpetuity but it will be interesting to see how it unfolds assuming there is any change in my lifetime.

I can only say for myself, that if I got an email that said there was a new and innovative software package coming out with new features that I’d find helpful for $2k and that support would sunset in another 10 years for the DesignEdge that I own now, I’d be at the front of the line. Compared to monthly subscription based software (as most companies have shifted their model) what I have has been a bargain.

Anyway, that’s more IF IF IF IF and I’m a pragmatist so I will live in the here and now until something changes and then I’ll deal with it. I do understand your points 100%.

[Joe Jones]

I just wish the owner of DesignEdge would modify the software to allow us to add features that we find useful. There could be a drop down WIDGETS list, where we could add in things for table owners to experiment with.

There could be a Robert Johnson's Widgets List, a Joe Jones's Widgets List, a John Derby Widgets List, etc. etc. "Collect The Whole Set!"

I have no interest in "hacking" their software, but I sure would like to be able to add features as add-ons. I know nothing about programming, but I would find someone who could convert my ideas into CODE that would work seamlessly with DesignEdge. I don't even know what language is used to code DesignEdge.

I have mentioned before, several things that would just make DesignEdge much better, and easier to use. Heck, I wouldn't even charge for it. I'd do it for FUN! It wouldn't cost them a single penny! The thing is, the coding already exists in DesignEdge to do most of what I would want to add. They just don't take full advantage of it. "Workarounds" are okay, I guess. But why have "a way around" a problem, when you can just FIX the problem?

Ah, well. I can get things done with the current offering, albeit missing several functions that would make it so much better.

Was it Photoshop, or Illustrator ... or maybe Google SketchUp ... which program allowed people to add in WIDGETS that enhance the functionality of the software? I don't remember. I used to use a program that allowed talented programmers to ADD features that did not change the base software, but operated as external subroutines in harmony WITH the software. It would do something that the original software could not do, and then return the DATA to the original software program with the alterations.

Sometimes I really regret not sticking with computer programming way back at the beginning.

Joe

[djreiswig]

SheetCam allows plugins. I have no idea how they work, but I think somebody here has created one.

[tinspark]

Was ... or maybe Google SketchUp ... which program allowed people to add in WIDGETS that enhance the functionality of the software?
Joe

I used Goole sketchup back in the day, and they had plugins. Also, I was offered a free class through our training facility for Onshape, which also has several plugins and very similar to Fusion 360. But I am digging Fusion 360 more lately, and have never used their plugins. And use 360 to draw all of my 2-D parts. I have no need for the 3-D capabilities That 360 easily produces. But you guys have me looking at a 3D printer similar to Tom's. So it should be a shorter learning curve with 360 if and when I pull the trigger 3D printer urge.. I have not explored fusions plugins for a lack of a need to do so at this point, but since Onshape offers them, I am pretty sure Fusion 360 does too

[adbuch]

Yes - there are many add-ins ("Plugins") available for Fusion 360, and they are quick and easy to install from the Autodesk App store.

https://apps.autodesk.com/FUSION/en/Home/Index

Here is an example of a Fusion 360 add-in useful for creating Spur Gears, Internal Gears and Rack Gears.

Here is one that creates Helical gears.

Many of the add-ins are free, and some do have a nominal cost.

[adbuch]

But I am digging Fusion 360 more lately, and have never used their plugins. And use 360 to draw all of my 2-D parts. I have no need for the 3-D capabilities That 360 easily produces. But you guys have me looking at a 3D printer similar to Tom's. So it should be a shorter learning curve with 360 if and when I pull the trigger 3D printer urge..

Doug - I do just the opposite from you - I use Design Edge for most of my 2D parts, and Fusion 360 for 3D modeling and 3D printing. Sometimes I draw the part in the flat first using Design Edge, and then import it to Fusion 360 for editing/extruding. But I will say that once a 2D drawing is created using Fusion 360, it's much easier to make changes to dimensions, etc. than trying to do the same thing with Design Edge.

Here is an example of a mounting bracket that I modeled in Fusion 360 and then cnc plasma cut. It is a bench mount for a tubular planishing hammer.

The cnc plasma cut bench mount is labor intensive to produce in quantity, so I decided to 3D print something that is functionally similar.

The average print time for one base and two caps is around 5 hours. But once it's printed, post processing is quick and then I install the bolts into the base. Since I will need quite a few of these, the 3D printing is the way to go for me. The 3D printed parts is functionally as strong as the metal part.

[tinspark]

Those are awesome David!
DesignSpark was my go to 2-D program, but they changed it up, now I have been using Fusion for what I used DesignSpark for, basically just 2-d for now. I made a couple of aluminum perforate discs of different sizes with ss standoff bolts this afternoon to put in the bottom of the Mrs. tamale pans so that she and several of her buddies could steam tamales today. the standoffs kept them out of the water. I think i may have had an hour in them both. I took advantage of the array tool in designedge and the Q button. worked great for this!! Busted them both out including drawing and standoffs in about an hour. So whatever works for the particular project. advanced designEdge is still the bomb as most who have tried it and know it would attest

I still want the second seat for my office PC, and may pull the trigger next month. I think that is why I likely started this whole ridiculous thread from the beginning. haha