Pricing, Gathering needed items & discussing my 1st table build

[TJS]

I was also going to suggest take a look at the 80/20 site. Lots of parts on there and Z car accessories. I was going to suggest this on your Welding Web post. I have a PPLC old style rail set up and they used 80/20 stuff.

[N2 Welding]

Curious what you come up with for a gantry design.

Saw your post about asking if myplasm supports rotary. Check out this guy's YouTube: https://youtube.com/@robbroomfield468?s ... KoQjlkuuug

His table seems well thought out and built, maybe it can give you some inspiration on yours

Thinking of trying to squeeze some Hiwin railing into the build budget. The guy in this quote from the tread you mentioned brings up some very good points about why to use Hiwin rails.

My reasoning for wanting to spend more for Hiwin rails is ease of installation, less time planning “ less head scratching or hair pulling :p “ and rigidity.

We used to use them on tables up until 2019. (Star Lab CNC) It is an old Thompson rail design originally made in South Korea. In 2017 a few chinese companies started copying the design (Like the ones you have). There are a few issues the the chinese clones. They are not retrofitable from mfg to mfg. They generally are not equal in distance between the rails over a long length. The bearings are cheap bearings with steel seals and the seals are just rubber scrapers (Unlike the Korean versions that have 10MM thick spring loaded oil filled wipers). We switched to 100% Hiwin in 2020 for a few reasons.

1. Getting a consistent supply from Korea is impossible
2. Speed Guide bearings require preload to be rigid and will require more effort to move and change direction
3. Reciprocating ball type rails have a super long life, do not requirte much preload to be rigid and are well stocked
4. The chinese counterparts were horrible but more available

There are also chinese clones of hiwin rails. There are only a few factories that make profile linear rails like you would find from a supplier like Hiwin. These factories take orders from anyone. But its like the wild west. If you buy a no name rail expect preload values to be all over the place. One truck may be good and meet your requirements and another may be loose or not even fit the rail. Making production machines for longevity means having the parts in inventory to keep machines running. One off machines are fun to build and I commend you! But production machinery built in a factory sense has to have some legacy behind it. Those Mfgs that are building with the chinese clone rail are in for a huge wake up when their customers are needing replacement parts and the preload cannot be properly set or the parts simply do not fit. We take a different angle and stand by the machine for years to come not weeks to come.

I love to see folks building their own machines it is fun to see the progress and good and bad ideas (Mostly good) being implemented. It can be quite rewarding if enough thought was done to the design. It can also be a huge loss. But these pages surely do help. We like to help when we can as well. What Mfgs do that? hehehe Have fun and happy cutting!

[N2 Welding]

Am thinking this T slot railing looks good for the price. Shipping is $65.00

This 80x120 is on clearance

Ok I just placed the order for this material at 72" long and edited the 1st post to include the new build price totals.

Weight of this is under 44 lbs

[N2 Welding]

OP from that same thread shows his build and how he has a UPS “ uninterruptible power supply “ battery back up set up so the computer and CNC controls don’t just stop working in an event of a power grid failure. I had not thought of that but I like it as it can not only save time but save your bacon and prevent material from being wasted.

Curious what you come up with for a gantry design.

Saw your post about asking if myplasm supports rotary. Check out this guy's YouTube: https://youtube.com/@robbroomfield468?s ... KoQjlkuuug

His table seems well thought out and built, maybe it can give you some inspiration on yours

Thinking of trying to squeeze some Hiwin railing into the build budget. The guy in this quote from the tread you mentioned brings up some very good points about why to use Hiwin rails.

My reasoning for wanting to spend more for Hiwin rails is ease of installation, less time planning “ less head scratching or hair pulling :p “ and rigidity.

We used to use them on tables up until 2019. (Star Lab CNC) It is an old Thompson rail design originally made in South Korea. In 2017 a few chinese companies started copying the design (Like the ones you have). There are a few issues the the chinese clones. They are not retrofitable from mfg to mfg. They generally are not equal in distance between the rails over a long length. The bearings are cheap bearings with steel seals and the seals are just rubber scrapers (Unlike the Korean versions that have 10MM thick spring loaded oil filled wipers). We switched to 100% Hiwin in 2020 for a few reasons.

1. Getting a consistent supply from Korea is impossible
2. Speed Guide bearings require preload to be rigid and will require more effort to move and change direction
3. Reciprocating ball type rails have a super long life, do not requirte much preload to be rigid and are well stocked
4. The chinese counterparts were horrible but more available

There are also chinese clones of hiwin rails. There are only a few factories that make profile linear rails like you would find from a supplier like Hiwin. These factories take orders from anyone. But its like the wild west. If you buy a no name rail expect preload values to be all over the place. One truck may be good and meet your requirements and another may be loose or not even fit the rail. Making production machines for longevity means having the parts in inventory to keep machines running. One off machines are fun to build and I commend you! But production machinery built in a factory sense has to have some legacy behind it. Those Mfgs that are building with the chinese clone rail are in for a huge wake up when their customers are needing replacement parts and the preload cannot be properly set or the parts simply do not fit. We take a different angle and stand by the machine for years to come not weeks to come.

I love to see folks building their own machines it is fun to see the progress and good and bad ideas (Mostly good) being implemented. It can be quite rewarding if enough thought was done to the design. It can also be a huge loss. But these pages surely do help. We like to help when we can as well. What Mfgs do that? hehehe Have fun and happy cutting!

[N2 Welding]

There are many YouTube videos of guy developing Arduino based THC packages, many are the stand along type which drive a motor for the torch positioning. The Proma SD mounts electrically between the controller and driver so it uses the same motor for the torch movement and THC. The Proma 150 does it differently by getting the signals from the plasma unit and sending signals to the controller (BOB) which controls the Z motor. These signal are more like the way the G-code or keyboard keys move the Z up or down through the BOB.

found this info here. https://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic. ... sm#p224678

I’m taking a serious look at the Proma Myplasm system. Thinking it’s a decently packaged deal with software, controller board, Ohmic / free float touch off and voltage sensing THC. Not sure if the Myplasm system needs the SD or 150 THC or of it comes with its own unit.

[kn612]

There are many YouTube videos of guy developing Arduino based THC packages, many are the stand along type which drive a motor for the torch positioning. The Proma SD mounts electrically between the controller and driver so it uses the same motor for the torch movement and THC. The Proma 150 does it differently by getting the signals from the plasma unit and sending signals to the controller (BOB) which controls the Z motor. These signal are more like the way the G-code or keyboard keys move the Z up or down through the BOB.

found this info here. https://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic. ... sm#p224678

I’m taking a serious look at the Proma Myplasm system. Thinking it’s a decently packaged deal with software, controller board, Ohmic / free float touch off and voltage sensing THC. Not sure if the Myplasm system needs the SD or 150 THC or of it comes with its own unit.

Man, I'm gonna sound like rodwebster but seriously take a look at linuxcnc and qtplasmac. You can try out a Linux OS and qtplasmac simulation and it won't cost you anything. Mesa hardware is affordable.

Here is a really well done wiring diagram:

viewtopic.php?t=34391



https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing ... -new-users

I used those instructions for my first install and am still using mint. It's even easier to install linuxcnc on debian and mint debian.

Qtplasmac has really good features. It compares to Hypertherms phoenix software in my opinion. Plus it's FREE and constantly being developed.

[N2 Welding]

I appreciate the suggestion. Honestly I don’t want to fuss around with Linux CNC at the moment. Myplasm seems to be very easy to set up and use.

I’m just unsure on a couple things on that Myplasm system like are there issues using imperial when selected during initial set up and if there are problems importing files from other softwares.

I get frustrated and PO’d very easily and don’t want to struggle as much as possible when I put this thing together. Per the following quote Linuxcnc is not easy to get up and running. My primary goal is to get this thing built and be usable as fast as possible and deal with the little issues that might come up when I start using it. I already know I’m not interested in doing all the research involved in installing and tweaking settings in linuxcnc on top of troubleshooting it when it does not work as intended.

Perhaps at some point in the future I can play around with linuxcnc. Maybe after it has been developed and polished up a bit more.

it may be that he has opened the dxf in myplasm and saved or exited that software and it has converted the poly lines to straight line segments between the nodes.

I have never used myplasm so please take the following with a big pinch of salt but I suspect that it is a very rough and ready controller and does not offer some of the features that mach3, mach 4, uccnc or linuxcnc offer.... but it is an integrated solution purely for plasma and a cost effective one (low cost + all in 1 box).

when I first started with plasma I did buy and use the proma THC 150 torch height controller and in my opinion it was very rough and ready and would not adapt to thin and thick material cutting as it could not respond fast enough on 2mm mild steel, but was fine on 6mm mild steel (under mach3 with an ethernet smooth stepper)

good luck and I really hope I am wrong as I don't think that proma will sort the issues for you and update their software.... hence why I now use linuxcnc and am no longer at the mercy of hardware or software and associated short comings and slow or non existent product development and improvements. that is not to say that Linux or linuxcnc is easy or simple or better... just that the user (me) is now in the driving seat and it is what I make of it as it is fully customisable (even if it took me a lifetime to understand and change it!!!!).... luckily there is usually someone to help and point you in the direction of what to change

[N2 Welding]

I’m thinking I like these for the upper slides on the aluminum gantry

15mm HG series Hiwin rails and flanged slideing blocks with scrapers.

https://motionconstrained.com

[acourtjester]

Not to scare you but (I get frustrated and PO’d very easily and don’t want to struggle as much as possible when I put this thing together.) it will happen. This site has many (including myself) that have been there, weather you buy a complete table or build it yourself. But there are people on this site that will help you work through it. Ask questions before you reach that point, spending time with questions and answers is much better then banging you head on the wall and getting PO'd. When you reach the end and see the whole picture you will understand that different software, mechanics and electronics its not that complex.

[N2 Welding]

Thanks Tom.

Any idea what size linear rails and blocks would be best. 15mm, 20mm, 25mm or 30mm. I selected 15mm for price and less weight. Have not purchased them yet. I’m not sure if that is best, perhaps 20mm rails would be better and more rigid.

[acourtjester]

It depends on the design of your table, and its weight, using one of either side of the long axis should work fine with 20. But with the shorter single axis I have seen some use 2 in parallel. As in the videos I sent you I used a completely different design (does not mean I am correct just what I did), other design are completely successful. It comes down to your choice, and you have been doing the research to help with that decision. I also considered the cost of the components, part of that is the cost of shipping. Have you looked at the cost of shipping the long linear rail you show above, or are they shorter and butted together for the longer length?

[N2 Welding]

Might be free shipping after so many $$$ not sure but have to look into the shipping costs. That always plays a portion of the total cost but having a nice accurate fail proof system imo is worth its weight in gold. Not really but you get my point.

I plan on having one linear rail running on its side with another running flat horizontally so the two combined running together add a combined level of rigidity as well as giving a bigger foot print for added bracketry. Hope that makes sense.

I’m calling the rail that supports my Z access the Y access and the X access will run the gantry accross the table. I’m not quite sure how the gantry will be supported bearing carrier wise to run the gantry back and forth accross the table yet but rest assured, I am looking at many different cost effective solutions

Anyway I’m past trying to cheap out on things like bearing carriers when a simpler solution exists. No offense bro but I want to get this thing up and running and not built to end up spending hours diagnosing problems related to carriage run out issues due to failed fabricated bearing carriers etc. Hence why I purchased the 80/120-08 extruded aluminum. In my mind, a failed attempt to imitate some one else’s bearing carriers can eat up a lot of cost, time and physical/mental stress. I’m not willing to put in too much time reasearching a solution when an easier solution exists. A failed attempt to make a set of bearing carriers will just lead to mental anguish frustration and a lot of loud exsplicitives that no one wants to hear :/. $hit I still have to figure out the best way to build the table, house the fluids once the table is drained and figure out how to load materials on the table with out damaging anything. I still have a lot of pondering to do. Thinking wood will be a cheap alternative to getting the gantry figured out prior to cutting welding and drilling on expensive metals.

Take it for what it’s worth.

Reagarding controls, I do see a lot of happy Myplasm customers accross the YouTube world. I also see many unhappy users. My reasearch leads me to believe most of the issues stem from pi$$ poor implementation like bad system shielding/grounding and cheating out on quality materials. Granted I’ll never know if I don’t try it for my self. If it works out great and others will hear it from me and if not same thing. You know me already, I’m not afraid to speak my mind

Think I need to tally up a cheat sheet of questions and get the linear rail company I referenced earlier on the phone to put some of my lingering questions to rest :/

[acourtjester]

It is better to spend the time with research so you are happy with your decision, your money and your time. Many reasons for people having problems with a CNC table and its operation. That is the reason this site is great, many of these things get ironed due to the experiences of the member and willingness to share info and solutions. You are entering a new world for you, the membership here shows many have gone before you and will follow.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Build Plans rather they be digital , on graph paper or the back of a pizza box is essential prior to ordering things to get exactly what you need. If your shooting for a 4'x8' format you have to allow for over-sizing of the sheets, skate lengths, gantry parking off the cut area if desired and room to add a few things down the road. Getting PO'd is all part of the process just like making mistakes. Deal with them and continue with the project (sometimes those mistakes shows you a better way to do things).

[N2 Welding]

Thank you both Tom and Segoman. I ordered 6’ of that 80x120-08 extruded aluminum knowing it is longer than what I’ll need but paid a little extra to have that cushion so I’m not stuck to any fixed length once it’s ordered and shipped.

Thinking i’ll have To start the table outside in my backyard where the concrete is level. My garaged is slightly sloped down hill towards the street so water will run away from the house foundation. It’s going to be interesting to move it from the back into the garage once the table is welded and painted. That will be done prior to building the gantry. In the meantime I’m going to continue researching and asking questions.

[acourtjester]

Well maybe you will call on some beer labor to help you move it into the garage. One thing for sure like all of us DIY guys you will be able to put a "custom built by N2" tag on it. I sent these to guys that copied my plans, and other I built and sold. Just a little extra fun to be had.

[N2 Welding]

Yeah only if the Garden tractor or Bronco is not able to tow it into position. I have a triangulated tow hitch I built for one of the Broncos when I got it home. I’ll probably tow it using this.

[N2 Welding]

I finished watching Rusty’s how to build series again. Good place to start for anyone starting a build. Just putting this here for future in case I need another refresh.

[acourtjester]

Good and he uses the Myplasm electronics and program so your set.

[N2 Welding]

I just finished reading the installation and instruction manual to the Myplasm system. Fairley straight forward. I sent a msg to them but forgot to ask about using imperial measurements vs metric. I saw a video where you can select an imperial/inch or metric during the initial set up.

Think I'll send them another msg.

Ohmic clip arrived and it's a pretty tight fitting clip.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

I finished watching Rusty’s how to build series again. Good place to start for anyone starting a build. Just putting this here for future in case I need another refresh.

If your gonna talk with the guys down unda you better learn some strine..

[N2 Welding]

If your gonna talk with the guys down unda you better learn some strine..

No worries mate, she'll be right

[N2 Welding]

Choosing proper motors for your machines applications.

[N2 Welding]

Here is how Rusty made his water table.

[N2 Welding]

Looking at ways to remove moisture from the air. Several videos of adding a transmission cooler between the compressor out put line from the pump before the input on the tank.

Amazon transmission cooler. Derale 15300 Tube and Fin Cooler Core,Black ATM the price is $89.99.

I added it to the cart to see if the price will go down.

Video of the modification.