THC Sliding mechanisms RATTMMOTOR HBX1605 Linear Motion Guide

[N2 Welding]

I am looking at this for THC. Any one ever dealt with one of these units. If not what's your take on making one of these work with THC?

RATTMMOTOR HBX1605 200mm / 7.87" Linear Motion Guide Actuator Double Linear Rail Slide 1605 Ballscrew Motorized XY XYZ Linear Stage Table Nema23 Stepper Motor for DIY CNC Router Engraver Machine

https://www.amazon.com/RATTMMOTOR-Actua ... to_dp&th=1

Edit #1: I ended up purchasing this HBX1605 200mm linked above “ just under 8 of travel “ for $115 after tax shipped and then I purchased these 2x linear rails with 4x sliders to make the floating portion of the THC $37 after tax shipped https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GSSN6KK?ps ... ct_details

EDIT #2: putting these links and info here from the metal price thread so it’s easy for me to find in the future.

Yeah most of the materials probably will to big to weigh on a hand held scale. Some of the plate materials I’d most likely need their help loading on the trailer with their equipment or I’d have to get some type of crane set up for handling materials on the trailer then again in my garage.

So David is on the right track with the weight book idea. One of our local suppliers puts a pretty good one out that I have used many times
Here is a link,
https://valleyiron.com/wp-content/uploa ... _5x9_1.pdf

[adbuch]

Posting a link to the item you are asking about would be helpful.
Thanks,
David

[N2 Welding]

I had put a link in the post but was not aware I had to use the link button to get the link to stay. Fixed now.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

I see no floating head / switch on it

[adbuch]

Same here. You could certainly use this for your Z axis torch mount bracket assembly, but you would need to implement the thc with floating head and switch as add-ons.
David

[Rodw]

I think that is quite a good base to work with. Similar to the one I built from scratch with one linear rail.
This linuxcnc thread has a pic of how I added a float switch
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/30-cnc-machi ... nion-drive

[acourtjester]

Looks like a good base for the Z axis, like Segoman says you would need to add a floating head and maybe a magnet break away assembly for safety.
Here are 2 that I printed as an example. STL Files can be sent.

new torch holder.JPG

DSCN4821.JPG

DSCN0065.JPG

DSCN0067.JPG

[N2 Welding]

Ok better question: Does anyone manufacture a THC unit with a floating torch mount at an affordable price that is worth owning?

I have no idea if a small NEMA 23 open loop stepper motor like the one on the product in the link to Amazon is any good or if it is big enough to run a TD SL100SV 180 deg torch. I have no idea of any of the motor requirements for that matter. Do I need NEMA 23 or 34 on the gantry X & Y axis. I know not enough info provided on my part. Still trying to figure out if I want 4x4 or 4x8 and make room for either or in my 2 car garage that is already stuffed to the gills.

I believe closed loop steppers are better as they have built in encoding and are auto correcting for over stepping. Does this sound about right?

[SegoMan DeSigns]

If you don't have access to a 3D printer I'll bet acourtjester could be bribed into making you one..

This is what I have used for 3 years with no problems, it now shows an optional home switch as well as the float (It was easy to install my own):

https://cnc4newbie.com/store/en/other-p ... p91c79c68/

This is the Mag Mount break away torch holder I made (pg 2 shows my mount):

viewtopic.php?f=103&t=24499

I would not buy a motor with the slider, I would get it when you buy the rest of them to keep them the same mfr. Look into SDSK Clearpath Servos, they have a channel on Y/T.

[N2 Welding]

Looks like a good base for the Z axis, like Segoman says you would need to add a floating head and maybe a magnet break away assembly for safety.
Here are 2 that I printed as an example. STL Files can be sent.
new torch holder.JPG
DSCN4821.JPG
DSCN0065.JPG
DSCN0067.JPG

That definitely looks like a nice easy to implement breakaway sliding unit. For some reason I can’t help but wonder/think that certain rapid gantry movements could cause the torch to break away if say for example the torch cable flexed a bit during gantry movements. The torch cable has to have enough movement in it to prevent damage during up/down Z movements and such might have enough play to flex and pop the torch off of the mount. Now I also see that you look like you have some decent size guns for an older gentleman. Perhaps the torch looks like it breaks away too easy simply because you are a lot stronger that what it looks like it takes to pop it off for you with very little effort. Does that make sense?

Naturally with out having any real world experience with a CNC machine let alone a plasma CNC table means I don’t know just how strong or easy one would want the break away force to be in order to prevent torch damage. I’m sure there has to be a fine line between not enough and too much force required to prevent torch damage.

[N2 Welding]

If you don't have access to a 3D printer I'll bet acourtjester could be bribed into making you one..

This is what I have used for 3 years with no problems, it now shows an optional home switch as well as the float (It was easy to install my own):

https://cnc4newbie.com/store/en/other-p ... p91c79c68/

This is the Mag Mount break away torch holder I made (pg 2 shows my mount):

viewtopic.php?f=103&t=24499

I would not buy a motor with the slider, I would get it when you buy the rest of them to keep them the same mfr. Look into SDSK Clearpath Servos, they have a channel on Y/T.

Looks like you are able to manually adjust the angle of the torch. Is this so you can cut a bevel when cutting straight lines etc?

[SegoMan DeSigns]

That is correct:

IMG_20200922_122925073.jpg

Here is a vid of the table in action (400 lb gantry with ClearPath Servos Nema 34 on X & Y / 23 on Z )

[N2 Welding]

Nice . I took note about keeping the motors all the same brand when you mentioned it.

400lbs gantry. Holly cow. You are not messing around. I see the heavy duty chain drive system controlling the x axis too. So many ways to skin a cat.

[acourtjester]

You would be surprised how strong the Rare Earth Neodymium are. I have my plasma cable in the boom from above the table and it work fine following the torch around. In SegoMan's video you can see why a breakaway mount is needed see attached screen shot. Thin metal will warp and other time parts tip up in the path of the torch.

warped.JPG

2 tables 4x4 and new 4x8.JPG

[adbuch]

I have been following this discussion with great interest. Many good ideas here for diy builders as well as those wishing to possibly upgrade and existing table. Thanks for all the information.
David

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Here is one of many vids on the ClearPath Servos

[Rodw]

Here is one of many vids on the ClearPath Servos

Linuxcnc has many more servo options available to it and with the right mesa card, even old plasma machines that have 0-10 volt servos can be retrofitted to linuxcnc. I'd leave the Clearpath ones alone.

But an interesting path I'd like to try is to run 220 volt ethercat servos with absolute encoders and a small ethercat I/O module on the gantry.
This would reduce the wiring to almost nothing as everything would be on the ethercat bus. Another I/O module with a 0-10 volt analog input could be used to read the torch voltage. So basically it would just have mains power, 24 volt power to the I/O modules and an ethernet cable with no need for home or limit switches.

As an aside, I sold my table to a Plasmacam owner yesterday who is planning to get rid of his fully configured Plasmacam table in preference to the ease of use of the QTplasmac system.

[N2 Welding]

I think that is quite a good base to work with. Similar to the one I built from scratch with one linear rail.
This linuxcnc thread has a pic of how I added a float switch
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/30-cnc-machi ... nion-drive

Thank you Rod. That is a lot of info to absoarb all at once. I did not even get look at the link the other guy post in that thread yet. Definitely some good info to consider when designing a table with rack n pinion and final gear ratios. That looks like a lot more effort than I’m interested in tinkering with. So many intricate parts that need to line up perfectly in your design.

[Rodw]

Rhats the thing, you just need to make this bit to add a float switch

z axis.jpg

[N2 Welding]

Oh yeah the floating THC does not seem like it would be so difficult but drilling all the holes perfectly square might be a little challenging but I’m sure I can get it close enough. I was actually referring to the rest of your build with regards to the rack and pinion set up.

[N2 Welding]

Here is one of many vids on the ClearPath Servos

Those look nice. I can see potential for wiring issues. The connectors face towards the output shaft with short distance between the two and I see potential for cable binding because of the short cleanse issue. I guess it could be mitigated depending on how the motors are clocked. With these motors, it seems as though more longer cables would be required or do they use the same amount of wires as a closed loop stepper motor?

[N2 Welding]

Here is one of many vids on the ClearPath Servos

Linuxcnc has many more servo options available to it and with the right mesa card, even old plasma machines that have 0-10 volt servos can be retrofitted to linuxcnc. I'd leave the Clearpath ones alone.

But an interesting path I'd like to try is to run 220 volt ethercat servos with absolute encoders and a small ethercat I/O module on the gantry.
This would reduce the wiring to almost nothing as everything would be on the ethercat bus. Another I/O module with a 0-10 volt analog input could be used to read the torch voltage. So basically it would just have mains power, 24 volt power to the I/O modules and an ethernet cable with no need for home or limit switches.

As an aside, I sold my table to a Plasmacam owner yesterday who is planning to get rid of his fully configured Plasmacam table in preference to the ease of use of the QTplasmac system.

Mesa card? Are those of those expensive 3G or G3 systems or totally different. I’m planning on keeping my system a windows based OS. I am familiar with Windows. Are you mentioning all of the higher end products that demand a higher premium at the cash register?

[Rodw]

Nah, Totally different, A Mesa 7i96s $149 and add a Mesa THCAD2 for $79 + Linuxcnc $0 = $228
Linuxcnc looks after the THC internally using the voltage read by the THCAD2 so thats it!
ref: http://mesanet.com/

Using AC ethercat servos drives, you'd need the drives and motors (maybe $500 each for drive and motor) and an ethercat I/O module say $200 but you don't need a DC power supply as you would for stepper motors so there are some savings elsewhere. I've seen a small ethercat IO module for $45 that I'd try adding on the gantry to reduce wiring from the control box. Ethercat devices are just daisy chained together using normal ethernet network cables. Linuxcnc acts as the ethercat master for $0 vs what I'm told is about $1500 with Mach4. But this is an advanced setup and not for the novice...

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Here is one of many vids on the ClearPath Servos

Those look nice. I can see potential for wiring issues. The connectors face towards the output shaft with short distance between the two and I see potential for cable binding because of the short cleanse issue. I guess it could be mitigated depending on how the motors are clocked. With these motors, it seems as though more longer cables would be required or do they use the same amount of wires as a closed loop stepper motor?

It's really not an issue as you can clock it in the best direction for your setup. The motor may or may not be mounted to a gear box or adapter like on the slider I gave you a link to. The hook up wires are flexible, I can take a picture of mine if you like. ClearPath has an ethernet servo as well, I would like to see some photo's of Rodw's system. With all of this information thrown your way you have to decide what works for the budget you have allotted for the project. Start compiling information for your owners manual now and always allow room for upgrading down the road.

[N2 Welding]

I have not set aside a budget as of yet. Still trying to figure out the electronics side of things. I like the simplicity of the Gecko G540 however it's only a 4 axes which would not allow for pipe/tube cutting for later on down the road but I'm not too worried about that atm. I can always add/upgrade that later once I have a system built and have learned software enough to be competent with CNC Plasma. Then once I get my feet wet and decide that this is something I will stay interested in I can decide on spending more money for upgrades later on.

For controls I was thinking mach3, Gecko G540, PriceCNC AVHC10. I am not able to find a new PriceCNC AVHC10 anywhere in the last couple of hours of research.

I have plenty of computers laying around to build for this going all the way back to socket 7 or Socket A, 939, AM2, AM2+, AM3, AM3+. Pricewise Gecko G540 $289 & the PriceCNC AVHC10 is about $300 so that is roughly $600 for control board, drivers and THC. Still have to research motors next. Any suggestions on other THC units that flat out work and are easy to use and don’t brake the bank? Acorn THC is $799 :O