Hypertherm Sync plasma system

[cutnweld]

Hi, just curious if there is any smart sync users out there that would like to share real world data, feelings etc on the new system. Consumable life, cut quality, dross etc. Not trying to start a fire, just looking for honest conversation.

[weldguy]

I too am waiting for some real world feedback, particularly from someone who also has experience with the previous Powermax models.

From the discussions I have had so far I have found that the OEM table manufacturers love them but the end users not so much.

I can see why this is the case, makes perfect sense but time will tell if this continues to be the trend.

[cstroke]

Not sure if this helps you guys or not..
I have a powermax 85 and in another thread highlighted some of the problems I'm having.
0-30 code that is mind numbingly frustrating.
Short story..
Mostly on 85 amp consumables, 0-30 code so bad I can't walk away from the machine.

I bought the adapter and some sync consumables.
I've used 4 of the 85 amp sync cartridges so far, when I say used I mean used them up..
The last 3 cartridges on 1/2" Ar 400 plate have given me 1424 pierces before I've replaced them, One failed at this mark so I've replaced them at this mark.
Since using the sync cartridges on 1/2" plate 85 amps I've had 4-5 0-30 failures and maybe 2 ohmic faults.
4 cartridges total.
The last 2 files of 712 pierces each ran from start to finish with no resetting.
At $53ish dollars a pop it's more expensive than the standard consumables but it is a little slice of heaven not to have to stand by waiting for failures.
I bought the cartridge reader but I cant get it to do anything other than log the consumable but no data is on them.. Assuming it won't work unless you have a new machine..
Cut quality and dross?? If any thing it's better...
BTW just to be perfectly clear I am in no way happy about the increased price for the consumables. Without breaking it way down it in my opinion is probably 1/3 more expensive than the old way.
The way it makes sense is that you can check your consumable life with the reader( on new machines) and you don't throw cartridges away that have life in them.
So maybe it does balance out. I know I"ve junked nozzles and electrodes I don't know if they are good or not and won't risk it on most of my projects.
Consumables are cheap compared to material today.
JUST my two cents hopefully it's helpful to you guys.

Any questions fire away...

[djreiswig]

I use a magnifier to check consumables. You can see any pitting or if the orifice is not round. I usually stop and check it occasionally when doing a large job.

[adbuch]

Not sure if this helps you guys or not..
I have a powermax 85 and in another thread highlighted some of the problems I'm having.
0-30 code that is mind numbingly frustrating.
Short story..
Mostly on 85 amp consumables, 0-30 code so bad I can't walk away from the machine.

I bought the adapter and some sync consumables.
I've used 4 of the 85 amp sync cartridges so far, when I say used I mean used them up..
The last 3 cartridges on 1/2" Ar 400 plate have given me 1424 pierces before I've replaced them, One failed at this mark so I've replaced them at this mark.
Since using the sync cartridges on 1/2" plate 85 amps I've had 4-5 0-30 failures and maybe 2 ohmic faults.
4 cartridges total.
The last 2 files of 712 pierces each ran from start to finish with no resetting.
At $53ish dollars a pop it's more expensive than the standard consumables but it is a little slice of heaven not to have to stand by waiting for failures.
I bought the cartridge reader but I cant get it to do anything other than log the consumable but no data is on them.. Assuming it won't work unless you have a new machine..
Cut quality and dross?? If any thing it's better...
BTW just to be perfectly clear I am in no way happy about the increased price for the consumables. Without breaking it way down it in my opinion is probably 1/3 more expensive than the old way.
The way it makes sense is that you can check your consumable life with the reader( on new machines) and you don't throw cartridges away that have life in them.
So maybe it does balance out. I know I"ve junked nozzles and electrodes I don't know if they are good or not and won't risk it on most of my projects.
Consumables are cheap compared to material today.
JUST my two cents hopefully it's helpful to you guys.

Any questions fire away...

Thanks for that information! I had heard about the adapter to install the sync cartridges onto the Duramax torch, but this is the first review I have read from someone actually doing some serious cutting with this setup. There were reports on the Plasmacam forum that some of the new sync cartridges used on adapters were causing problems with the thc. The last I remember hearing, Hypertherm was working on resolving this issue. Robert Johnson would know much more about this. Perhaps he will chime in here.

David

[cstroke]

Zero problems with the THC.. Mechanically everything is fine. I'm not a fan of the clip on for Ohmic, it's $10. for 3 pcs.. 2 of mine have gone AWOL and I have no idea where. Lost somewhere out of the table when I moved to storage.

[adbuch]

I think it was/is a Plasmacam only problem with the unreliable thc.
David

[cstroke]

It can't be just me but I'm having a difficult time not making a crack about djreiswig's head gear..

[adbuch]

I assumed that was a stock photo from the internet. I've got 4 or 5 similar magnifiers. I wear them on top of my glasses when I really need to see something. I've got different powers of magnification to use, depending on the circumstance. And I have on occasion used them to check out my consumables.
David

[adbuch]

These are the ones I use.

[rdj357]

I cut a 307 pierce, 3,300 cut inch job yesterday in 1/4" - I chose to use the 65a Sync cartridge. After the first few cuts I got ohmic contact errors and it took me about 15 minutes of banging and cursing, blowing with compressed air, wire brushing, and firing the pilot arc many times to finally get whatever was stuck up in the shield free. After that, it cut the rest of the day without incident. Excellent cuts. The clips don't bother me, I pop the whole clip off and let it hang by the wire when changing/checking consumables so it doesn't get lost. I don't, however, remember where the heck I put the other 2 that came in the pack!!!

I have noticed the FineCut do have more ohmic errors. At first Hypertherm said it was because Plasmacam Ohmic sensing was 'too sensitive' but at some point they have told Plasmacam that they are working to resolve a design problem. When I've inquired about this at Hypertherm, no one seems to be able to confirm nor deny so I'm definitely interested to hear everyone's experience with these systems on Plasmacam and all other machines - especially those using ohmic sensing. I like the concept of this new technology but I am not convinced that enough applicable testing of the design was done before releasing it to market. The non-removable shield is a big pain in the ass in my opinion.

[djreiswig]

I assumed that was a stock photo from the internet.
David

Yes, I should have posted a link.
https://www.harborfreight.com/home/hobb ... 38896.html

[HypHyDef]

Not sure if this helps you guys or not..
I have a powermax 85 and in another thread highlighted some of the problems I'm having.
0-30 code that is mind numbingly frustrating.
Short story..
Mostly on 85 amp consumables, 0-30 code so bad I can't walk away from the machine.

I bought the adapter and some sync consumables.
I've used 4 of the 85 amp sync cartridges so far, when I say used I mean used them up..
The last 3 cartridges on 1/2" Ar 400 plate have given me 1424 pierces before I've replaced them, One failed at this mark so I've replaced them at this mark.
Since using the sync cartridges on 1/2" plate 85 amps I've had 4-5 0-30 failures and maybe 2 ohmic faults.
4 cartridges total.
The last 2 files of 712 pierces each ran from start to finish with no resetting.
At $53ish dollars a pop it's more expensive than the standard consumables but it is a little slice of heaven not to have to stand by waiting for failures.
I bought the cartridge reader but I cant get it to do anything other than log the consumable but no data is on them.. Assuming it won't work unless you have a new machine..
Cut quality and dross?? If any thing it's better...
BTW just to be perfectly clear I am in no way happy about the increased price for the consumables. Without breaking it way down it in my opinion is probably 1/3 more expensive than the old way.
The way it makes sense is that you can check your consumable life with the reader( on new machines) and you don't throw cartridges away that have life in them.
So maybe it does balance out. I know I"ve junked nozzles and electrodes I don't know if they are good or not and won't risk it on most of my projects.
Consumables are cheap compared to material today.
JUST my two cents hopefully it's helpful to you guys.

Any questions fire away...

Thanks for sharing your experiences. You are correct that the cartridge reader will only work if you are using the SYNC power supply.

[HypHyDef]

Hi, just curious if there is any smart sync users out there that would like to share real world data, feelings etc on the new system. Consumable life, cut quality, dross etc. Not trying to start a fire, just looking for honest conversation.

Thanks for the question about the Powermax SYNC systems, I'm not sure if you are on Instagram but you can find several non-sponsored folks on there who have given their feedback on how the systems are working for them. If I find some other sources I'll post links for you guys to check out.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Hi, just curious if there is any smart sync users out there that would like to share real world data, feelings etc on the new system. Consumable life, cut quality, dross etc. Not trying to start a fire, just looking for honest conversation.

Thanks for the question about the Powermax SYNC systems, I'm not sure if you are on Instagram but you can find several non-sponsored folks on there who have given their feedback on how the systems are working for them. If I find some other sources I'll post links for you guys to check out.

I'm still not sold on them ...

[cstroke]

I don't like the expense of them, other than that they seem fine.. The offset for more pierces doesn't jive with the money..
$53 clams for a sync cartridge
$16. for a set of the 85 amp consumables.. Double that for getting 2x the pierces and it's $53 vs. $32.. A 40% increase in cost just in consumables..(Double check my math and correct me if I'm wrong.)
i don't find the cut quality enough to justify the price difference..
But the one great plus is there aren't many 0-30 errors, I still get some though..
And I wish it was written somewhere about the code reader since I spent $100 for one I can't use..

[rdj357]

I’m very happy with cut quality - there is no doubt the cost per cut inch of consumables increases.

That said, until a solution is found for the horrible issues with shorted consumables when using ohmic sensing is found they are a bit pile of steaming manure for me. I can get them to work but trying to help other owners that just want to hook up the machine and cut rather than fiddle around beating on cartridges that you can’t take apart to clear a piece of slag fouling the shield wastes too much of my time and it’s not going to get better unless a solution is found.

[HypHyDef]

Hi, just curious if there is any smart sync users out there that would like to share real world data, feelings etc on the new system. Consumable life, cut quality, dross etc. Not trying to start a fire, just looking for honest conversation.

Thanks for the question about the Powermax SYNC systems, I'm not sure if you are on Instagram but you can find several non-sponsored folks on there who have given their feedback on how the systems are working for them. If I find some other sources I'll post links for you guys to check out.

I'm still not sold on them ...

That's fair, maybe some day you will change your mind or we'll eventually make a new product that will be just right for you. We're still happy to have you as a customer.

[HypHyDef]

I don't like the expense of them, other than that they seem fine.. The offset for more pierces doesn't jive with the money..
$53 clams for a sync cartridge
$16. for a set of the 85 amp consumables.. Double that for getting 2x the pierces and it's $53 vs. $32.. A 40% increase in cost just in consumables..(Double check my math and correct me if I'm wrong.)
i don't find the cut quality enough to justify the price difference..
But the one great plus is there aren't many 0-30 errors, I still get some though..
And I wish it was written somewhere about the code reader since I spent $100 for one I can't use..

Hi cstroke, i'm sorry that this wasn't made clear when you purchased the reader. We do say on our website that the cartridge adapters will not transmit data.

[cstroke]

I didn't catch that..
I will use the sync cartridges to eliminate the 0-30 code, but for normal runs where I can monitor the cuts I'll stay with the old consumables.
I think the cartridges will work for some, especially by not throwing good cartridges away or companies you have many employees that seem to forget to put parts in torches or the wrong parts etc...
Even if they were at $43 bucks a set I'd consider switching over, even being slightly more expensive it would be much easier with inventory etc..
Eventually we will all will have to take this route as our generators die..

[djreiswig]

Eventually we will all will have to take this route as our generators die..

Unless someone comes up with a Duramax torch adapter for the sync.

[cutnweld]

I’m very happy with cut quality - there is no doubt the cost per cut inch of consumables increases.

That said, until a solution is found for the horrible issues with shorted consumables when using ohmic sensing is found they are a bit pile of steaming manure for me. I can get them to work but trying to help other owners that just want to hook up the machine and cut rather than fiddle around beating on cartridges that you can’t take apart to clear a piece of slag fouling the shield wastes too much of my time and it’s not going to get better unless a solution is found.

There is some real world feedback right there. I recently got an email from HT stating that they are joining a large group of companies, OMAX waterjet I think and not sure who all else. Us little fellows are more of a bother to the company than anything anymore. If this system is the all out best then why is it not implemented in the High Def cutting systems, a system where owners had no choice on what to change when? Because HT knows that they would forever lose their name and reputation in the big commercial world of state of the art CNC plasma. Us little fellows who would like to go high def, but cant afford it, dont really count.

[DieselFumes]

There is some real world feedback right there. I recently got an email from HT stating that they are joining a large group of companies, OMAX waterjet I think and not sure who all else. Us little fellows are more of a bother to the company than anything anymore. If this system is the all out best then why is it not implemented in the High Def cutting systems, a system where owners had no choice on what to change when? Because HT knows that they would forever lose their name and reputation in the big commercial world of state of the art CNC plasma. Us little fellows who would like to go high def, but cant afford it, dont really count.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. They will put up with us but definitely want to reduce interactions with us so in comes the SYNC. Less consumable issues and higher consumable profits for them. SYNC is for them, not the consumer. They bundle it up in a warm fuzzy blanket of claims stating its for the consumer but it's not. It's plasma politics in my opinion.

[cstroke]

They aren't far off from making it a good system for both of us, but the bottom line has pushed them a little bit over the edge from normal..
Hypertherm in the past has given us a good product for a justifiable price. They missed a little here... so we will see..

[cutnweld]

Right. I'm not writing them off, but for now this as far as I can tell is kind of off limits, I don't have time to fool around with scanning electrodes with my phone to see if they work or not. That time spent will offset by far the time saved by the 1/4 turn quick change consumables, not? Kudos to HT for great products in the past, hope to see it continue! As far as making an adaptor, I am sure it would be possible, tho it may take some "hacking" to make the power unit operate without recognizing what is in there. I feel covered for awhile tho, when I heard about the new system I promptly bought a new "old" 85 amp unit. It is still sitting in the factory box, unopened, and I feel confidant that it is not losing value! Maybe I should put it on plasma spider auction, might raise enough for a new CNC press brake