THC Woes.. What am I doing wrong?

[Mr.Hotwire]

First off, I know it's me. But.. let's continue...

I have been fighting my MiniTHC for months. I get good cuts with the THC turned off, until the thin material warps and the cut then fails. So, I have been trying to get the THC to play nice. But even after hours of reading, and watching and testing and getting advice... I'm still at a loss.

My test setup is this: 18g mild steel. Cutting 5500 mm/min, 45A @ 80v.

On my MiniTHC I have left is as is, other than setting the voltage, and the delay to 0. (As recommended by a number of members here). In UCCNC my Anti dive is 80%, THC min is -5 THC max is 5 and both anti-dive and anti down are enabled.

My initial pierce goes off without a hitch, and the cut seems to be okay. But the Z-axis makes a LOT of movement. On the second pierce the z moves UP the 5mm and THAT screws up the rest of the cut. It just gouges the metal and says up high above the work surface. The height changes when I change the THC Min / Max setting.

Lastly, I want to thank everyone on here for all of the support and great advice I get. I could NOT have gotten this far without any of this support. I have learned a ton and burned less than I would have screwing it up on my own. Again, Thank you and I hope that my questions and future support can help others with their adventures in plasma as well.

[acourtjester]

I use a different THC but do use UCCNC, I do not use any anti-dive setting. If the torch move to much your sensitivity may be to low (causing any small change in Arc voltage to move the Z axis). You did not say what plasma unit you are using, does you THC have a read out for the voltage. Are you using a floating head switch or Ohmic sensor to determine where the metal surface is for each cut operation. Either of these should correct the height of the pierce for each new cut operation.

[Mr.Hotwire]

I use a different THC but do use UCCNC, I do not use any anti-dive setting. If the torch move to much your sensitivity may be to low (causing any small change in Arc voltage to move the Z axis). You did not say what plasma unit you are using, does you THC have a read out for the voltage. Are you using a floating head switch or Ohmic sensor to determine where the metal surface is for each cut operation. Either of these should correct the height of the pierce for each new cut operation.

My system is as follows :

Torch: PrimeWeld Cut60 w/ IPTM80 Machine torch
Controller: UCCNC AXBB-E
Controller Software: UCCNC w/ NEON2019Plasma Screenset
THC: MiniTHC w/ Ohmic Sensor

Today I wasted a 4x4 sheet of 18g trying to get this going, about 3/4 of the way threw my results were getting better. I had to change the delay setting in the MiniTHC to 300ms. That got rid of the initial jump up on piercing. But I still think I can do better with the cuts as it does still come into close contact with the material. Im still cutting at 5500mm/min, 45A @ 80v. It is how ever not bobbing up and down as much as It was. I think that may be from changing my THC feedrate to a lower rate 2500mm/min.

[acourtjester]

Well some progress is better the none, I am using a different version of the Neon package it is 2113, have you contacted the guy who sell neon. He did answer some questions I had. Now I think you are moving to slow with you cutting, I am looking at the Hypertherm manual for 45 Amp and 18 Ga. mild steel. Both the speed and voltage are higher but there is a difference between the shielded and unshielded consumables so I cannot say how that affects your torch. Here is a video I made sometime back about setting up the Price THC I am using, You need to do more testing as shown in the video to find the correct voltages for cutting 18 Ga. This is repeating cutting a straight line about 8" and seeing what works on you table.

[weldguy]

What a bummer, THC systems can be tricky to get dialed in. I have no experience with what your using so cannot be of any help but burning through a 4x4 sheet practicing is a real bummer. Maybe you did this but when I am testing like that I will just draw a 48" long horizontal line, you can cut hundreds of those before blowing through an entire sheet and straight line cuts are best for dialing in THC systems, no corner slow downs, small hole slow downs, just consistent straight lines.Hopefully someone else here can help to get you closer but sounds like your making progress.

[Mr.Hotwire]

Well some progress is better the none, I am using a different version of the Neon package it is 2113, have you contacted the guy who sell neon. He did answer some questions I had. Now I think you are moving to slow with you cutting, I am looking at the Hypertherm manual for 45 Amp and 18 Ga. mild steel. Both the speed and voltage are higher but there is a difference between the shielded and unshielded consumables so I cannot say how that affects your torch. Here is a video I made sometime back about setting up the Price THC I am using, You need to do more testing as shown in the video to find the correct voltages for cutting 18 Ga. This is repeating cutting a straight line about 8" and seeing what works on you table.

Part of my problem is my speed. But.. Im using ball screws so My speeds are limited there.

[acourtjester]

Whoops, if the speed is causing your problem you may look at changing out the drive assembly. I have been using 2 different type of axis drive assemblies. For across the table which I call "Y" I use rack and pinion. And the the long axis ("X") I use roller chain and sprockets. Both are near 3:1 ratios with stepper motors. this is cutting 14 Ga at 150 IPM, I cut 18 Ga much faster, fine tip 230 IPM

[weldguy]

If your machine speed is limited you can just turn the amperage down to a more appropriate value to match your slower speed but at 5500mm/min (215 ish in/min) it's not way out to lunch however I have no experience with your plasma cutter. Have you tried cutting simple straight lines I suggested above to try and dial the THC in? What were you cutting when you were trying to dial it in before?

[Mr.Hotwire]

This build is NOT my first kick at the cat, I have built a number of CNC machines in the past. This is my first large machine and my first plasma with THC. That being said, I have been doing test lines and getting great results. Moving quickly in a linear motion, on semi-flat plate is easy and gives false hope. It's the curves and corners that the results give a better look at how well the machine is tuned.

I have a file I use, it's 6 100mm lines that are 10mm apart. I use it for the basic "Tool setting" for SheetCam. With this file, I get great pierces and little to no dross. What I use to do a real test is a copy of the early Camaro badge. It has a lot of large and small arcs, and some tight angles. This file really pulls out problems, Especially with the THC. As it is on and off A LOT.

I will post up some pics of those results shortly.

[Rodw]

Sounds like the file you are cutting has sections that are too short to get up to cutting speed. Due to the laws of physics, it not possible to override this behaviour. The THC should be disabled in these circumstances as you have observed.

So your file is demonstrating why accelleration is king with plasma cutting. The faster you can accellerate, the better will be your cut quality on such files as the distances at lower velocity are minimised. 0.3G (3000 mm/sec/sec) is what you should be aiming for (I do 0.5G)

With Linuxcnc which I use, there is a G64 command that sets the tracking tolerances to set the distance from the actual path is allowed. I don't know how/if you have a similar setting but relaxing that tolerance might help.

I might also add that your issues demonstrate the weaknesses of external THC's as they are flying blind compared with linuxcnc where the THC is built into the trajectory planner and therefore has full knowledge and control over everything. Because of this, I have never needed to tune my THC. Its just worked out of the box.

[SeanP]

On my MiniTHC I have left is as is, other than setting the voltage, and the delay to 0. (As recommended by a number of members here). In UCCNC my Anti dive is 80%, THC min is -5 THC max is 5 and both anti-dive and anti down are enabled.

Might not help any, and mine is a different setup but 5mm up and down isn't much, candcnc says -25/+25, I've had to increse that at times as well.

[Mr.Hotwire]

Here are pics of my Camaro test cuts.

[Mr.Hotwire]

Attached is the image I am using.

camaro_corsivo.dxf

(28.97 KiB) Downloaded 69 times

camaro_corsivo.dxf

(28.97 KiB) Downloaded 69 times

And my tap :

Code: Select all

N0010 (Filename: camaro_corsivo v3.tap)
N0020 (Post processor: UCCNC MiniTHC - Hotwire.scpost)
N0030 (Date: 2022-01-17)
N0040 G21 (Units: Metric)
N0050 F1
N0060 G53 G90 G40
N0070 M206  (THC off)
N0080 (Part: camaro_corsivo)
N0090 (Operation: Outside Offset, 0, T1: Mild Steel 18g, 78v @ 45a, 60psi)
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N3500 G01 X93.0167 Y20.8757
N3510 G02 X92.7347 Y20.8199 I-0.2640 J0.5940
N3520 G01 X87.2662 Y20.9716
N3530 M206  (THC off)
N3540 G02 X86.6572 Y21.7925 I0.0180 J0.6498 F3300.0
N3550 G01 X86.8252 Y22.4078 F5500.0
N3560 X86.8855 Y22.5548
N3570 X88.0632 Y24.6527
N3580 X88.0868 Y24.6916
N3590 X90.8389 Y28.8781
N3600 X90.8540 Y28.9000
N3610 X94.6181 Y34.1453
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N3630 X98.9934 Y40.0287
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N3650 X99.2756 Y40.8343
N3660 X98.8152 Y40.8662
N3670 X97.2587 Y40.3137
N3680 X93.6424 Y37.9094
N3690 X89.1257 Y33.3192
N3700 X84.8159 Y27.4741
N3710 X80.4499 Y20.8378
N3720 G02 X79.8880 Y20.5453 I-0.5430 J0.3573 F3300.0
N3730 G01 X73.7809 Y20.7227 F5500.0
N3740 G02 X73.2500 Y21.7192 I0.0189 J0.6497 F3300.0
N3750 G01 X75.4867 Y25.2651 F5500.0
N3760 X75.4017 Y25.1822
N3770 X75.3774 Y25.1597
N3780 X73.0181 Y23.0828
N3790 X72.9757 Y23.0485
N3800 X71.0520 Y21.6226
N3810 X70.9907 Y21.5824
N3820 X69.9056 Y20.9538
N3830 X69.8163 Y20.9109
N3840 X69.0740 Y20.6209
N3850 G02 X64.6730 Y24.1817 I-1.2178 J2.9950 F3300.0
N3860 G01 X65.1071 Y26.6879 F5500.0
N3870 X63.1831 Y24.9802
N3880 X63.1518 Y24.9541
N3890 X60.2231 Y22.6664
N3900 X60.1672 Y22.6273
N3910 X57.6523 Y21.0568
N3920 X57.5392 Y21.0006
N3930 X55.4786 Y20.2165
N3940 M205  (THC on)
N3950 G02 X55.2197 Y20.1746 I-0.2312 J0.6075
N3960 G01 X53.6546 Y20.2415
N3970 M206  (THC off)
N3980 G02 X53.2315 Y20.4227 I0.0278 J0.6494 F3300.0
N3990 G01 X52.2016 Y21.4145 F5500.0
N4000 G02 X52.0197 Y21.7339 I0.4509 J0.4682 F3300.0
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N4020 X51.5383 Y23.8735
N4030 X51.5707 Y25.2129
N4040 X50.7579 Y24.4121
N4050 X50.7222 Y24.3795
N4060 M205  (THC on)
N4070 X40.6612 Y15.8454
N4080 X40.6028 Y15.8013
N4090 X30.7028 Y9.1591
N4100 X30.6517 Y9.1281
N4110 X28.6930 Y8.0608
N4120 X28.6504 Y8.0396
N4130 X27.3085 Y7.4313
N4140 X27.2418 Y7.4053
N4150 X23.0125 Y6.0254
N4160 X22.8829 Y5.9973
N4170 X18.1986 Y5.4746
N4180 G02 X17.9791 Y5.4875 I-0.0721 J0.6460
N4190 G01 X14.1893 Y6.3696
N4200 G02 X13.9398 Y6.4879 I0.1474 J0.6331
N4210 G01 X11.0663 Y8.7033
N4220 G02 X10.8955 Y8.9016 I0.3969 J0.5148
N4230 G01 X8.9453 Y12.3997
N4240 X8.8777 Y12.5791
N4250 X7.8610 Y17.2891
N4260 X7.8464 Y17.4188
N4270 X7.7795 Y23.2809
N4280 X7.7835 Y23.3602
N4290 X8.3653 Y28.5891
N4300 X8.3712 Y28.6301
N4310 X9.0962 Y32.7411
N4320 X9.1249 Y32.8488
N4330 X11.6367 Y39.8116
N4340 X11.6781 Y39.9035
N4350 X16.9537 Y49.5251
N4360 X16.9873 Y49.5798
N4370 G02 X59.3831 Y88.5456 I105.4932 J-72.2325
N4380 G01 X59.4330 Y88.5712
N4390 X65.1310 Y91.1833
N4400 X65.2187 Y91.2161
N4410 X68.0377 Y92.0437
N4420 X68.1058 Y92.0598
N4430 X70.6845 Y92.5234
N4440 X70.8031 Y92.5336
N4450 X73.7450 Y92.5173
N4460 G02 X73.9430 Y92.4853 I-0.0036 J-0.6500
N4470 G01 X76.3233 Y91.7090
N4480 G02 X76.5587 Y91.5722 I-0.2015 J-0.6180
N4490 G01 X78.2880 Y90.0016
N4500 G02 X78.4517 Y89.7686 I-0.4370 J-0.4812
N4510 G01 X79.4435 Y87.3673
N4520 G02 X79.4919 Y87.1522 I-0.6008 J-0.2481
N4530 G01 X79.6576 Y83.8944
N4540 X79.6479 Y83.7451
N4550 X78.8918 Y79.5882
N4560 X78.8703 Y79.5031
N4570 X77.6172 Y75.6580
N4580 X77.6022 Y75.6168
N4590 X76.1421 Y71.9880
N4600 X76.0958 Y71.8950
N4610 X72.0648 Y65.2092
N4620 X72.0231 Y65.1481
N4630 X64.8612 Y55.8517
N4640 X64.8162 Y55.7994
N4650 X56.8998 Y47.5150
N4660 X56.8599 Y47.4767
N4670 X51.5462 Y42.7877
N4680 X51.4901 Y42.7434
N4690 X49.5703 Y41.3930
N4700 M206  (THC off)
N4710 G02 X48.7013 Y41.5034 I-0.3740 J0.5316 F3300.0
N4720 G01 X46.1227 Y44.5340 F5500.0
N4730 G02 X46.1992 Y45.4526 I0.4950 J0.4212 F3300.0
N4740 G01 X49.2366 Y48.0081 F5500.0
N4750 M205  (THC on)
N4760 X62.0064 Y60.8444
N4770 X70.6192 Y73.6788
N4780 X71.5810 Y76.2007
N4790 X71.8673 Y77.0268
N4800 X72.5004 Y79.6136
N4810 X72.6359 Y82.2050
N4820 M206  (THC off)
N4830 G03 X67.3050 Y85.0845 I-3.9227 J-0.8879 F3300.0
N4840 G01 X67.2730 Y85.0735 F5500.0
N4850 X64.4073 Y84.1692
N4860 X61.9659 Y83.0536
N4870 X59.6598 Y81.7579
N4880 M205  (THC on)
N4890 G03 X21.9154 Y38.3842 I70.3760 J-99.3519
N4900 G01 X19.3938 Y32.7667
N4910 X18.2741 Y29.5512
N4920 X17.2748 Y25.5299
N4930 X16.8618 Y21.1014
N4940 X17.4323 Y17.7411
N4950 X18.8836 Y15.5243
N4960 X21.2057 Y14.4124
N4970 X24.5649 Y14.4826
N4980 X29.0035 Y15.9621
N4990 X33.1454 Y18.1565
N5000 X35.6423 Y19.7813
N5010 X42.7018 Y25.1532
N5020 X51.1055 Y32.3439
N5030 X52.9333 Y33.9841
N5040 X53.5850 Y34.8933
N5050 X53.6057 Y34.9205
N5060 X57.4452 Y39.7224
N5070 X57.4771 Y39.7592
N5080 X61.8954 Y44.5074
N5090 X61.9229 Y44.5352
N5100 X62.9062 Y45.4718
N5110 X62.9326 Y45.4956
N5120 X65.3471 Y47.5554
N5130 X65.3807 Y47.5822
N5140 X67.6684 Y49.2865
N5150 X67.7205 Y49.3216
N5160 X69.8519 Y50.6097
N5170 X69.9424 Y50.6552
N5180 X71.8957 Y51.4525
N5190 X72.0502 Y51.4943
N5200 X73.8020 Y51.7425
N5210 G02 X74.0488 Y51.7300 I0.0912 J-0.6436
N5220 G01 X75.5688 Y51.3550
N5230 G02 X75.8324 Y51.2206 I-0.1557 J-0.6311
N5240 G01 X77.0973 Y50.1526
N5250 G02 X77.2343 Y49.9920 I-0.4194 J-0.4966
N5260 G01 X77.8555 Y48.9636
N5270 X79.3623 Y50.5291
N5280 M206  (THC off)
N5290 G02 X79.9067 Y50.7239 I0.4683 J-0.4508 F3300.0
N5300 G01 X85.7135 Y50.0401 F5500.0
N5310 G02 X86.1089 Y48.9471 I-0.0760 J-0.6455 F3300.0
N5320 G01 X81.1447 Y43.7175 F5500.0
N5330 X76.9513 Y38.8359
N5340 X73.8418 Y34.4407
N5350 X72.4140 Y31.6944
N5360 X72.1227 Y30.6082
N5370 X72.1339 Y30.1116
N5380 X72.3040 Y29.8317
N5390 X72.6477 Y29.7566
N5400 X73.2489 Y29.9707
N5410 X74.6774 Y31.1060
N5420 X81.9276 Y37.9522
N5430 M205  (THC on)
N5440 X90.6332 Y47.5543
N5450 X92.6323 Y49.9700
N5460 M206  (THC off)
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N5480 G01 X98.4901 Y49.8102 F5500.0
N5490 G02 X98.9379 Y48.7417 I-0.0481 J-0.6482 F3300.0
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N5520 X99.4660 Y47.4447
N5530 X102.1209 Y48.6177
N5540 X102.2193 Y48.6521
N5550 X104.3040 Y49.1966
N5560 M205  (THC on)
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N5580 G01 X105.9528 Y49.0875
N5590 M206  (THC off)
N5600 G02 X106.4004 Y48.8487 I-0.0579 J-0.6474 F3300.0
N5610 G01 X107.0888 Y47.9969 F5500.0
N5620 G02 X107.2306 Y47.5292 I-0.5055 J-0.4086 F3300.0
N5630 G01 X107.0820 Y45.9042 F5500.0
N5640 X107.0383 Y45.7220
N5650 X106.8161 Y45.1665
N5660 X111.1128 Y47.5095
N5670 X111.2096 Y47.5524
N5680 X116.1468 Y49.2778
N5690 X116.2425 Y49.3032
N5700 X117.8122 Y49.5949
N5710 X117.9515 Y49.6055
N5720 X119.8426 Y49.5456
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N5740 G01 X121.6156 Y48.5361 F5500.0
N5750 G02 X121.9063 Y48.1164 I-0.3460 J-0.5503 F3300.0
N5760 G01 X122.2649 Y46.3678 F5500.0
N5770 M205  (THC on)
N5780 G02 X122.2570 Y46.0725 I-0.6367 J-0.1306
N5790 G01 X121.7630 Y44.1862
N5800 X121.6988 Y44.0287
N5810 X120.6059 Y42.1135
N5820 X120.5571 Y42.0401
N5830 X119.2620 Y40.3514
N5840 X119.2398 Y40.3241
N5850 X114.0282 Y34.2405
N5860 X112.3902 Y32.2372
N5870 X111.0653 Y30.4277
N5880 X110.3966 Y29.3437
N5890 X110.2041 Y28.8744
N5900 X110.2100 Y28.7854
N5910 X110.3368 Y28.7936
N5920 X111.2506 Y29.2719
N5930 X115.8421 Y32.6709
N5940 X120.9652 Y37.5096
N5950 X125.4553 Y42.4631
N5960 X125.4752 Y42.4841
N5970 X129.1974 Y46.2389
N5980 X129.2339 Y46.2730
N5990 X130.3329 Y47.2233
N6000 M214
N6010 M05 (Torch off)
N6020 G00 Z25.4000
N6030 X0.0000 Y0.0000
N6040 M05 M30

[Rodw]

Can you share a DXF file of this? I think SVG will also work.

[Mr.Hotwire]

Here you go

camaro_corsivo.dxf

(28.97 KiB) Downloaded 65 times

camaro_corsivo.dxf

(28.97 KiB) Downloaded 65 times

[Rodw]

Sorry its been a while becasue I had my own plasma issues.
Here is my version with the cut file generated by sheetcam cut from 2mm mild steel.

I just put it on a white sheet of paper so it could stand out.
There seemed to be a bit more dross than normal which I think indicates the torch is not able to get up to cut speed.
I would look for mechanical issues first.
You may also have told Sheetcam to generate line segments not arcs too.

[adbuch]

Nice clean file. It should cut well at appropriate size.
David