Powermax 85 cutting issues

[bafortin]

I have plasmacam 4 X 4 table, and a powermax 85 that I use to cut my steel. When I cut 10 gauge or 3/16" plate steel, the gun will go through the motions of cutting the steel, but will only blow air. No arc is struck. What actually happens is, the gun will make contact with the steel, to establish cut height, go up to the pierce height, and go through the motions as it would if it is cutting the cut path, but only air blows, no flash arc. This happens about 30% of the time on 3/16 plate steel.

I have spoke with hypertherm several times over the past three years, and have had no success with this issue. I thought it might be air quality, but I have 30 feet of 3/4" copper tubing to help cool the air, followed by an air dryer system, followed by an air refrigeration dryer. The problem still continues. Hypertherm tech support and I have replaced the air actuator valve twice.

Just wander if anyone else has experienced this issue. If so, how did you solve the issue. Thanks

Boyd Fortin

[acourtjester]

You did not state if you had similar problems with other thickness steel. Does you table have the option for software control of the Plasma amps, not the THC voltage? Are you using the 45 amp nozzle, and 45 amps? Do you have the work lead attached to the metal itself (clamp to the metal you are cutting)?

[adbuch]

I have plasmacam 4 X 4 table, and a powermax 85 that I use to cut my steel. When I cut 10 gauge or 3/16" plate steel, the gun will go through the motions of cutting the steel, but will only blow air. No arc is struck. What actually happens is, the gun will make contact with the steel, to establish cut height, go up to the pierce height, and go through the motions as it would if it is cutting the cut path, but only air blows, no flash arc. This happens about 30% of the time on 3/16 plate steel.

I have spoke with hypertherm several times over the past three years, and have had no success with this issue. I thought it might be air quality, but I have 30 feet of 3/4" copper tubing to help cool the air, followed by an air dryer system, followed by an air refrigeration dryer. The problem still continues. Hypertherm tech support and I have replaced the air actuator valve twice.

Just wander if anyone else has experienced this issue. If so, how did you solve the issue. Thanks

Boyd Fortin

Are you using machine torch or hand torch. If using a hand torch, make sure the cable tie on your torch handle is securely holding the trigger closed. I would also check your torch control cable to make sure it is securely wired into your plasma cutter, and also make sure the plug on the end is firmly seated into the controller receptacle. I would also recommend trying to do some hand cutting (manual torch) on the same 3/16" steel plate to see if you have the same problem. What specific consumables do you have installed into your torch? Make sure they are in good condition and are correct for the material and settings you are using. I run a Hypertherm Powermax 85 on one of my Plasmacam DHC2 tables and have not experienced these sorts of problems.

As Tom mentioned above, another thing is to make sure your work clamp ("ground clamp") is clean and securely attached directly to the metal you are attempting to cut. Also check your work clamp cable at the other end where it plugs into the machine. Unplug and clean the terminal end and connect securely to machine receptacle.

David

[bafortin]

You did not state if you had similar problems with other thickness steel. Does you table have the option for software control of the Plasma amps, not the THC voltage? Are you using the 45 amp nozzle, and 45 amps? Do you have the work lead attached to the metal itself (clamp to the metal you are cutting)?

I do see the same issue with other thickness of metal, but not as often. The majority of the metal I cut is 14 gauge. The same thing happens about every 50 starts. The clamp is clamped to the grates of my table.

I am using 85 amp consumables with 85 amps. I have not looked to see if I can adjust the plasma amps on the plasmacam software. I will look into that this evening.

[bafortin]

David

I am using the machine torch and have been for a couple of years. I thought the hand torch might have been what was causing this problem a couple of years ago, so I purchased the machine torch and the same issue continued. When I cut 3/16" i am using the 85 amp nozzle and the setting is at 85 apms.

I will look at the ground clamp and see if this helps anything. Thanks

Boyd

[adbuch]

You did not state if you had similar problems with other thickness steel. Does you table have the option for software control of the Plasma amps, not the THC voltage? Are you using the 45 amp nozzle, and 45 amps? Do you have the work lead attached to the metal itself (clamp to the metal you are cutting)?

I do see the same issue with other thickness of metal, but not as often. The majority of the metal I cut is 14 gauge. The same thing happens about every 50 starts. The clamp is clamped to the grates of my table.

I am using 85 amp consumables with 85 amps. I have not looked to see if I can adjust the plasma amps on the plasmacam software. I will look into that this evening.

That 85 amp setting is way too much for cutting 14 ga. steel. I use FineCuts at 190 ipm, 45 amp setting, 0.060" cut height, 0.150" pierce height, 0.4 sec pierce delay time, and set my corner acceleration to around 0.05 G. The Hypertherm cut chart for 85 amp consumables doesn't even list anything thinner than 10 ga. I would recommend taking a look in your Powermax 85 manual for the mechanized cut charts and kerf width settings.
David

85 amp mild steel.jpg

Try these settings using your FineCut consumables with cut speed of 190 inches per minute.

FineCut mild steel.jpg

[bafortin]

I only use the 85 amp consumables and amperage for 10 gauge steel and thicker (ie 3/16).

I use the 45 amp consumables and settings for 14 gauge steel. Thanks

Boyd

[weldguy]

I had a look through this topic and didn;t see that you mentioned anything about an error code on your Hypertherm LCD display.

When this problem occurs do you get an error code on the LCD? If so what code are you seeing?

[acourtjester]

Using an 85 amp nozzle is way overkill for 10 Ga. use a 45 amp nozzle and 45 amps for a cleaner cut. Hypertherm had done all the research on setting for cutting different metals shown in their charts. They also show fine cut nozzles with 45 amps for cutting 14 Ga.
To have finer detail on your torch firing problem, you say no arc at pierce time, could it be you just do not see one. When you say just air flow that means the plasma unit did get a fire signal. There are a few things that happen when the signal is sent, there must be current flow and air flow to have the blow back to cause an arc and start the plasma flow. Current flow is needed to keep the plasma stream going, or the unit will stop. I would look at connecting the work lead directly to a clean place on the cutting metal. I use the Ohmic sensor to test the continuity with the cutting metal. I use the Z axis movements up and down touching the tip to the metal once or twice to be sure it is good, before I start cutting.

[WyoGreen]

I didn't notice anyone mentioning air flow. Is your air supply staying at the proper pressure measured right at the back of the cutter while cutting?

[adbuch]

Yes I agree with wyogreen. Although this doesn't sound like an air pressure issue, it is important to have an air pressure gauge mounted inline directly at the air inlet to you plasma cutter. Air pressure should be measured while the torch is flowing air, and should be around 100 psi as measured at this inline gauge while air is flowing thru the torch.
David

[bafortin]

I do get an error code on my hypertherm machine. The error code is O-30. I have sufficient air flow. The pressure ranges from 80 psi to 110 psi. This pressure is measured just before entering the cutter.

I have a short video of what it is doing, but i cant get it to attach to this post. Does anyone know how I can attach an MOV file, or put it somewhere where it can be viewed?

The video shows it with the hand torch when cutting 14 gauge steel. I now have a machine torch torch and it continues to do the same thing. Thanks

Boyd

[adbuch]

If you've got an error code, then you need to take your machine in and have it serviced/repaired. I would have mentioned that piece of information in your original post. Once you have the machine repaired, then I expect that your current problem will be eliminated.
David

[WyoGreen]

I think you need to read your owners manual for required air pressures. My Hypertherm wants 120 psi at the cutter. The torch uses blow-back ignition, and if your air supply is too low, the tip won't "blow back" and create the arc.
You may want to read the information at this web address:
https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/learn/ ... odes-0-30/

Steve

[adbuch]

If you've got an error code, then you need to take your machine in and have it serviced/repaired. I would have mentioned that piece of information in your original post. Once you have the machine repaired, then I expect that your current problem will be eliminated.
David

Let me rephrase that. If you've got a solid 100 psi at the entrance to the machine while it is cutting and you still have the error light on at the same time, then unless your air pressure gauge is faulty - you need to take your cutter in and have it serviced/repaired. I use a Hypertherm Powermax 85 on my Plasmacam table and I run a solid 100 psi. Never had a cutting problem, and no error lights.
David

[acourtjester]

A 0-30 error is stuck consumables, I may be wrong but I think sometime back someone said if you crank down to hard on the assembly of the consumable parts it can cause this error. Also the is a switch in the torch that is a safety so the consumables are tight it may not be working or intermittent. Here are some image of the torch disassembled. You must release the cable clamping nut where the cable enters the torch so it will slide back and then unscrew the outer housing. The switch is shown in the last image, small black thing

DSCN1665.JPG

DSCN1662.JPG

DSCN1659.JPG

[adbuch]

A 0-30 error is stuck consumables, I may be wrong but I think sometime back someone said if you crank down to hard on the assembly of the consumable parts it can cause this error. Also the is a switch in the torch that is a safety so the consumables are tight it may not be working or intermittent. Here are some image of the torch disassembled. You must release the cable clamping nut where the cable enters the torch so it will slide back and then unscrew the outer housing. The switch is shown in the last image, small black thing
DSCN1665.JPG
DSCN1662.JPG
DSCN1659.JPG

Tom - that's a good find! I had just assumed that the error code had to do with air pressure. I guess I was too lazy to look it up in the manual. Yes - I have heard of the "stuck consumables" problem where the electrode can't move for ignition. That is most definitely another possibility.
David

[djreiswig]

When is the last time you replaced the swirl ring? If your consumables get stuck often it could be worn. It acts as a bearing for the electrode to slide on when it blows back. If it can't slide back into the nozzle after a cut, you will get this error.

[bafortin]

I will check the alignment of the pin and look more in detail at my owners manual with regards to the air pressure. Thanks for all of the help and suggestions.
Boyd

[weldguy]

For sure check the swirl ring, it could be worn and not allowing the electrode to move inside it. Also be sure the orings are in good shape and lightly lubed, you can;t have those leaking air or this will also prevent the electrode from moving. Should be an easy fix, should not need to go in for repair. Check this topic for more good info viewtopic.php?f=60&t=29647

[bafortin]

I did sit down and look at my owners manual over the weekend with regards to the air pressure. The manual suggests an air pressure of 85-135 psi at machine. The top end of the pressure range is sufficient, but the 85 psi does not appear to be adequate to keep the consumables from getting stuck and throwing the O-30 error code.

My machine did not always throw the error code at the lower end of the suggested pressure (85 psi). I did adjust the pressure on my air compressor so that I am able to maintain a solid 95 - 100 psi at my machine. With this pressure increase I only had the error code and non-piercing issue once out of about 500 starts. This is a lot better than 30% of the time.

I appreciate all of the advice and help from everyone, especially Steve and David. Y'all nailed it about the air pressure. I assumed that the 85 psi, according to my owners manual, would be sufficient. This was not the case.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Boyd

[weldguy]

Sweet, glad you doing better with it. So something is changing is what I am getting from this and my guess it is a filter beginning to plug up.

At say 85 psi you may be consuming more air than can be supplied at that pressure so 135psi will be able to push more volume through as you consume it.

You may find that your 1 out 500 misfires slowly increases into more misfires as the filter continues to plug up.

Check your entire air system for a blockage causing slow flow but for sure keep your pressure up at the back of the machine it will always help and is regulated down internally after that anyway.

[acourtjester]

It has been suggested to put an pressure gauge at the input to the plasma cutter ( "T" inline) you can then see what drop in pressure you have when the torch fires.

[adbuch]

It has been suggested to put an pressure gauge at the input to the plasma cutter ( "T" inline) you can then see what drop in pressure you have when the torch fires.

That's exactly what I have on both of my cutters (45xp and 85). Inline pressure gauge. Mine holds pretty steady at 100 psi whether it is cutting or not. But I've got a very capable air supply with 24 cfm compressor and large storage tank.
David

[HypHyDef]

I just wanted to add that this is such a great thread, amazing work by this community to get bafortin back up and running. Our tech service guys are great at what they do but can't get to the root cause 100% of the time. it's fantastic to see everyone pitch in and help out.