Duty cycle True 40, Cutmaster 120, Cutmaster 152

[SM1]

Hi!

I'm about to buy a new Victor/Thermal Dynamics/ESAB plasma cutter 120 Amps for my ESAB ultrarex UXD-P1500. Any difference than the color?

The problem I have is that I can't sort out what is true or not. I have read operating manuals, service manuals, brochures etc. The claimed duty cycle of the 120 Amp air plasma is different depending on which place I read it.

Please help me to sort it out.

ESAB Cutmaster 120 and Victor True 40 says 120A 40% and 80A 100% in some places. The Victor True 40, Thermal Dynamics cutmaster 40, Victor Cutmaster 152 and ESAB 120A (automated) says 120A 80% and 100A 100% in other places.

What is the duty cycle in reality?

I have the Mechanized SL100 already but consider to sell it and buy a SL100SV. Is it worth it?

One more question. Can someone confirm that I can use the SL100SV automation torch in a machine that is fitted with the CNC interface kit 9-8311?

Looking forward to hearing from you soon. Need to buy the plasma asap but would like to have this sorted first.

Best regards, Simon
(from Sweden)

[robertspark]

Have you tried contacting ESAB?

[SM1]

Yes, several times. Not even ESAB can confirm what's right or wrong or what's working or not. Like one person that might know it, but he is not available.

Actually I'm considering to sell my SL100 torch and buy a Hypertherm PM 105 or a Thermacut Ex-trafire 105 instead. The Hypertherm costs about 25% more and has lower amp and duty cycle, but it seems like it can cut twice the speed of a Victor with the same amperage.

[robertspark]

The hypertherm 105 is rated at 105A, 60% duty cycle at a rated voltage of 160v.... So it's power output is 16.8 kW, and it has a power factor of about 0.94

And a 100% duty cycle at 94A

Around Pdf page 22/166

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... ohi1luNYOZ

The 120 esab, thermal dynamics etc
Is an 80% duty cycle at 120A and 128V so the power output is 15.36kW .... Power factor is not given but they do provide Imax and Ieff which puts the power factor at about 0.91

Around Pdf page 16+17/126
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... wCpPCykCYw

So I would say that the hypertherm 105 is more powerful.... The problem is everyone focuses on amperage.... And whilst amperage welds steel (at approximately 40A/mm thickness).... It doesn't cut steel for that you need wattage.... Amps X volts

Power factor is the money you burn and get no benefit of... So a higher power factor helps costs in the long run.

Also the shape of the nozzle can improve things cutting wise.

I don't work for any manufacturer or retailer of plasma equipment and have no vested interest in which you buy.

Can I ask what are you cutting at 120A?
Do you need a 120A or 105A machine?

What materials do you cut at what amperages and what feedrates? (I am just curious that's all)

[SM1]

Thanks for sorting it out Robert!

Acutally I just read some other thread where you explained the difference between the PM105 and a Kjellberg 100 or something.

Of course that's explaining that the Powermax actually is more powerful and also this machine: http://www.thermacut.net/images/Downloa ... 6_prev.pdf
Anyone have experience of the Thermacut machines?

I have a prototype/machine repair/Car shop. I want to be able to cut loader and excavator attachment brackets, bucket parts etc. That's where the 40mm material comes in the picture. I also want to be able to cut thinner sheets for car panels etc. in the middle of that I would like to be able to cut parts for my automatic firewood processor I have designed. Steel like Domex 355 and Domex 700 and mild steel 235 will be the most common materials as it looks now.

Feed rates? fastest possible with good results i guess? The machine is rated to max 470 ipm if I remember correct.

[robertspark]

Yes excavator buckets are one area where a higher power machine would be required

I have no experience with the other grades of steel you mentioned sorry

[djreiswig]

Have you considered a flame torch attachment for cutting thicker material? I have one set up on my machine and have cut some 1" with excellent results. I'm sure with the correct torch tip I could do 1.5"+ with no issues.

[SM1]

Robertspark, the Domex is a SSAB trade name for one of their lines of high strength cold forming steel. http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheet. ... 569&ckck=1
The Domex 355MC is one of the most commonly used structural steels in Sweden. Great material with good welding, cutting and mechanical properties.

Have you considered a flame torch attachment for cutting thicker material? I have one set up on my machine and have cut some 1" with excellent results. I'm sure with the correct torch tip I could do 1.5"+ with no issues.

Actually I already have it. It can cut over 8" according to spec, so it's an option for thicker materials but acetylene is super expensive (at least in Sweden). Still it would be easier if I could use the plasma for the majority of the cutting. I would also like to be able to use it manual for cutting 40mm stuff when fixing buckets and thick brackets etc, not be forced to have both the flame torch and the plasma for one job. If it can't handle the the thicker materials I tend to use only the flame torch.

I'm leaning toward the Thermacut 105Amp 95% duty 17,3kW cutting energy (165V) and the dealer told med that he could send it to me for free testing (unfortunately I don't have the setup of the cnc-table ready yet so it would only be tested manual). I got a price of about 4000$ (probably possible to deal it down a few hundred $) for the EX-TRAFIRE 105 machine incl. 8m machine torch and 15m manual torch. Same setup with ESAB/Victor 120 amp would be about 4500-5000$ and Hypertherm Powermax 105 6000$. Maybe a stupid question on an US forum, but is it worth to spend that much more for a Hypertherm? My regular dealer sells Hypertherm, that's a plus. The other dealer sells both Hypertherm and Thermacut but now only stocks the Thermacut since they think the price/performance is better than Hypertherm.

Best regards, Simon

[adbuch]

Does the Thermacut 105 have the capability to use fine cut consumables? The equivalent of the Hypertherm FineCut, which come in very handy for cutting thinner sheet metal.
David

[SM1]

Yes it does, please have a look here: http://www.ex-trafire.com/images/brochu ... /100sd.pdf
It's also possible to get the machines with genuine Hypertherm torches if you prefer that.

I have not found any price on the EX-TRAFIRE 105HD yet, but it should be able to deliver 21kW cutting energy 200V 105A. 100% duty. If it's not super expensive I think I will go for that. The EX-TRAFIRE 105 is an outdated model which has almost to identical specs as the Powermax 105, even the same weight 41kg.

The new Standard duty model is called EX-TRAFIRE 100SD which you can read about here: http://www.ex-trafire.com/images/brochu ... /100sd.pdf 17kW cutting power makes it more powerful than the Cutmaster A120 even at 100% duty. 170V with 220V boost compared to 128V on the Cutmaster A120 and definitely way more powerful than the standard Cutmaster 120. 1000$ cheaper also.

[adbuch]

Sounds great!! For me here in the US, I will go with the Hypertherm. I've never heard of the ex-tra fire ( I may have missed it - but what brand did you say it is?) , but I'm sure it will be fine - plus you have a local dealer for any problems. Either way - you're going to have a nice setup.
David

[SM1]

Yes, it sounds great, I just hope that it is great as well I actually read about the Thermacut products here for the first time. But it's a Binzel company (Germany) and I have used their products for + twenty Year's and it's top quality stuff.

The Powermax 105 is of course the simple choice if the price fits the wallet. For me, I think I have to have a roof of 5000$, from the beginning it was below 4000$.

[robertspark]

Thermacut are a manufacturer of consumables products, torches and leads

http://br.thermacut.net/images/Download ... W_prev.pdf

they are based in the Czech Republic as far as I can makeout, I did not know they were part of Binzel, but that would make sense as they are a manufacturer of welding consumables (+ some plasma consumables too)...... but largely consumables not whole machines....

They make a number of hypertherm consumables, although I'm not sure if they are authorised by Hypertherm, given they are hard to find or at least I've not come across the (here in the UK or my searches of ebay or other European union stockists).

They make an interesting accessory (??) or adaptor for the hypertherm powermax range of plasma cutters to allow for the installation of an alternative (cheaper ?) plasma cutting torch, but again other than finding the PDF and searching part numbers listed, I've not been able to find a supplier of such a (replacement) torch when I was looking for a more cost effective hypertherm machine cutting torch. I suspect that hypertherm have patented the torch connector which is why the market is very limited with alternative torches and the torches remain (very?) expensive for what they are comparative with other manufacturers..... even more so when import duty and taxes are added to the whole transaction of shipping from the US for a replacement or machine torch.

http://thermacut.net/images/allwebs/Dow ... -leads.pdf



So I suspect again there is something not authorised by hypertherm about the Thermacut offering and I suspect that hypertherms hold on the market of their accessories and consumables for their torches (largely through the patent I suspect for the torch connector which is not sold on it's own so you could make a lead up yourself using locally available leads which would be much more cost effective to ship locally IMO) are such that they wish to keep manufacturing and sales originating in the US (which I understand and accept) the problem is the hypertherm accessories and consumables can become very expensive when you need to consider that shipping costs are high from the US and taxes, and duties (in the UK) are added to the WHOLE cost of the transaction and not just the goods but shipping as well (despite the "shipping" largely not actually taking place in the UK and largely the monies for final shipping within the destination company not actually being paid to the final destination delivery agent / company [).

Getting back on topic, the ex-trafire looks like a good machine from a known manufacturer although I'd suggest checking with the availability of consumables and see how many machines are able to share consumables as this would indicate the (possible) long term viability of the machine which is now a benefit with the hypertherm powermax range, given the 45XP, 65, 85, 105 and 45 (non XP) with a duramax torch can share consumables which means that there may be hundreds of thousands of machines and machine owners looking for consumables for 20+ years or more making consumables available for a good amount of time where as a small amount of machines using their own consumables may have a smaller and shorter long term product availability (who really knows..... plus if you buy the machine and price product sales for 6-12 months payback.... you can buy another in 6-12 months whatever is available at that time.... I was hoping for longevity of the machine + parts and consumables when I bought mine as I knew it would not see production use.

[adbuch]

Great info! Thanks,
David