Plasma Quench Recipe for Water Table Use

[rock4xfab]

I have had my water .5 below the part to about 1" below the parts.. At 1" it seems to let more smoke into the air. At .5" virtualy smoke free.

[cbrokenspur]

thanks guys i will post pics when i get it done

[Complete_Loser]

I would take the water all the way up to the metal, or atleast 1/16" from it.
Dont know if that would hurt. When im cutting something that I know will have alot of heat in certain spots, I have a water bottle and squirt the work while its cutting. Works pretty good. But not great.

[PAToyota]

Does the homebrew plasmaquench add any antifreeze capacity to the watertable? A couple people around me are using heaters from Tractor Supply used for stock tanks to keep their watertables ice free if the shop isn't heated all the time. But wondering if the plasmaquench helps at all?

[FiveORacing]

Does the homebrew plasmaquench add any antifreeze capacity to the watertable? A couple people around me are using heaters from Tractor Supply used for stock tanks to keep their watertables ice free if the shop isn't heated all the time. But wondering if the plasmaquench helps at all?

I put some in a bucket and put it outside. It froze solid. If you didn't want an in the water heater, you could box in the frame with insulation board and put a small oil filled thermostic controlled radiator type heater under there. I used one of those heaters, on low, in a 3 x 8 bathroom in my garage before I heated the whole thing and it worked great. Hardly saw a change in my electric bill.

[FiveORacing]

I have had my water .5 below the part to about 1" below the parts.. At 1" it seems to let more smoke into the air. At .5" virtualy smoke free.

I also noticed a huge difference in smoke when I lowered the water to about an inch. I have it about 1/4 below the plate now and almost no smoke.

[Joey]

I just finished my water table. Ok, it will be just like everything else, never finished. haha I had to cut a bunch of 1 3/4 inch and 1 1/4 inch plate. I had to lower the water level to minimize any quenching of the plate. I had a fun time drilling the 1 9/16 holes in the parts that got splashed. I thought I would pass this warning to anyone who might be using their water table on hardenable steels. Just something I didn't think about until it was too late. I ended up with the water about three inches below my material. It still cut down on the smoke a lot.

[cutterguy]

Several of you have mentioned about having the water leave within an inch of the steel help to combat warpage. How does that work if the water does not touch the steel?
Cutterguy

[jmsrbrt]

No expert, but I've seen that the closer the metal is to the water, or maybe even submerged, the less smoke. The farther the water is away, the more smoke, but certainly not as much as if there was no water. As far as your question, I think if the water is withing an inch or so you'd be okay because of the air pressure coming out of the torch, cutting through the metal, is going to cause the underlying water to boil/splash upwards, and the metal gets wet, which is the whole intention.

[jmsrbrt]

how close to the cut material does the water need to be ??

Some will say water a half inch or so below, others will say it's okay to have the metal under the water. Personally, I don't know about water over the metal because I've experienced with a hand torch, that water will blow back into the torch when it pierces, then the torch won't fire again until I shake the hand torch, clearing out any water. I have water about 3/4" to 1" and it works well for me, although I do see a little smoke. I have plans to install a bladder system of sorts which would allow me to control the height of the water.

[davidesigner]

just finished building my table.. And knowing the KOAL WAS NO LONGER IN BUSINESS, I found anther place that sells it, but was still very interested in alternative water table treatment knowing there had to other ways. So while making an inquiry on cnczone a gentleman chimed in with soda ash ( sodium bicarbonate) ARM AND HAMMER so i did some research and ended up mixing it up. Formula is .5 pound for 20 gallons of water. So I added some food grade green die also to make it look good too.
there you have it also for those wanting to know how much water your table my hold here is the formula for that.
W" x L" x H" /231= gallons

Hey there, new to this forum and have to say it has been helpful.
I am interested how and if this solution worked for you? Also, I caught that you had written sodium bicarbonate, which is, baking soda... sodium carbonate is soda ash. it is interesting the the difference between the two is hydrogen molecules. so, bicarbonate can be converted to carbonate by simply baking out the hydrogen element. With a quick google search upon entering 'sodium carbonate and rust' alot of of home electrolysis information came up. This has me wondering: A. could this work? and B. Is it dangerous? There are warnings out there of heated aluminum and sodium carbonate creating an explosion.. I don't know to what degree this could be. luckily i am working with steel.

i'd like to try this out first before going into sodium nitrite/physan 20 as soda ash is relatively inexpensive and easy to get (mcmaster). Also, this seems simpler as it is essentially off the shelf detergent.

the table i am currently working on has about 100 gallons so i will try out the .5 lbs to 20 gallons formula.

I WILL report back with my findings.

[mainer]

Our company bought a new CNC plasma table this year with a water table. When we run it all day long the room gets a little steamy. Air cooling didn't seem practical because we are in a very cold climate and I would have to replace any vented air with heated air. We got a conditioner for the water from our gas and parts supplier. I'm not sure about it. The water smells like a fish market. I'm not sure if it's the conditioner or the combination of gases that are being pushed into the water from the different settings we run. Has anyone else experienced the fish smell?

Also to note, if you do any aluminum cutting, as we do sometimes, keep the water bath at least an inch below the plate, and remove parts as you go to allow gas bubbles to escape. Hydrogen bubbles will appear in the water and when they build up enough in one spot, they will explode. It's mainly an issue if your plate fills the table and doesn't allow room for the gas to escape, especially when you place a new sheet after you have been cutting a long time. We had a little explosion lift a plate off the table and drop it back down. It's loud.

[Marty]

A Year + Later, Feb 2013?????..(follow up to my original post of January 2012)
I have been using Sodium Carbonate as a rust fighter since early last year. Results?.............I have found that while not 100% rust free, the mixture seems to keep rust to a minimum??? The slats and water table components do not show any sign of any real etching or deterioration. The rust just forms kind of a ?mush? that does not seem to penetrate metal surfaces very much at all???..the little scrap pieces that I pull out are almost completely rust free, but they have been submerged and not had exposure to air?..the top edges of the slats (which are exposed to air of course) get some ?rust crust? but it is knocked off easily???.I drain, brush, and flush the water table about twice a year?..I have spent maybe $25 on Sodium Carbonate the during the last year. I buy it in the swim pool area at Wally World or Lowe?s?.it is generically called ?PH+? or ?PH Increaser??..if you read the label it is just Sodium Carbonate???. also known as washing soda or soda ash???.used also as a water softener???.. Don?t use Sodium Bi-Carbonate ??
I have installed clear plastic tubing from the drain sump fitting out to the lower frame rail , anchored a ball valve there with a hose adapter (picture is in this post somewhere) This way, I connect a drain hose and run the waste out to a graveled area (the waste is 100% bio degradable: water ,iron, limestone and salt) While it drains, with a second hose I flush out the table with fresh water and it gets a good rinse. When I am ready to add fresh Sodium Carbonate, I toss a few handfuls into a 5 gallon bucket to premix, then pure it into the water?..you will still need to stir the water to get the granules as dissolved as possible?..it like to clump???.use swim pool test strip to measure the PH?..get it way up like in the 8.8+ range??Happy Cutting!

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January 2012
All

I am launching a new water table and have read everything I could find here and on the WWW about rust prevention additives

I am going to use Sodium Carbonate (not sodium bi carbonate) because the alternatives just bring me FUDS (fears, un certainties,doubts,scares)

Hopefully the Sodium Carbonate will prevent rust, I will report back in a few weeks. I have spent maybe too much time researching the subject, but I want to protect my health and my investment in the equipment

Seems like Plasma Quench has been the "go to" stuff for many but I just don't want to breathe fumes of anything that is based on the meat curing chemical sodium nitrate. It also seems that it is very hard to get, and is expensive to boot

I bought a product at a swim pool supply that is called "PH Increaser" It is 98% Sodium Carbonate and 2% water. I could have bought Arm and Hammer Washing Soda in the laundry section at the market. Or I could have bought "Soda Ash" at a farm supply. Soda Ash is just another name for Sodium Carbonate It is ALL the same thing.

Having been a swim pool owner in the past I knew that the PH level in water can easily be tested with an inexpensive test kit. A quick Google session later I found a blog on the subject of relationship of PH level and rust prevention, I copied the comments below in the last paragraph

I am going to use Sodium Carbonate in the plasma water table and keep the PH at about 8.3 and see how that works

Rust is the natural state of iron (ferrous oxide). Rust occurs when an exposed area of a ferrous (iron-containing) alloy (like steel) drops below a pH of about 8.2 or 8.3. Rust inhibitors provide an environment that combats the pH drop on the surface - thereby protecting and preserving the surface finish. Different types of rust inhibitors provide different ways and durations of corrosion protection. By the way - water is the culprit that starts the rusting process. The water doesn't even have to be in a liquid state - it can be the humidity in the air. That is one reason cars in Chicago rust faster than cars in Phoenix - because Phoenix has very low atmospheric humidity compared to Chicago. Hope this helps.
Marty

[DezertBlingMoto]

I keep mine a hair shy of 1/4"

[dennisuello]

Has anyone had allergic reaction to either ingredient in the home-made plasma quench? I have and itch and a rash that comes and goes that started right around the time I added sodium nitrite and bactericide to my water table. About to drain it to see if it will go away. Started about the same time my brother-in-law visited with his three dogs, but he's only stayed for two days and a month later I still have the itch.

[SHAWNELIASON]

Has anyone had allergic reaction to either ingredient in the home-made plasma quench? I have and itch and a rash that comes and goes that started right around the time I added sodium nitrite and bactericide to my water table. About to drain it to see if it will go away. Started about the same time my brother-in-law visited with his three dogs, but he's only stayed for two days and a month later I still have the itch.

Nope.. no allergies here. But ive found that the recipe is pretty loose. Meaning I dont put nearly as much SN and the pond stuff as I used to and still have no foam and zero rusty parts. So maybe you can reduce ratios to help your allergies.

[rdwesley]

How do you test and keep the quench at the proper strength? Do you add sodium nitrite? Do you test the PH? I understand the original recipe, but how do you keep it at the proper percentages? Anyone found any of the alternatives mentioned here to work any better?

[Gunfighter]

I have a water table and would like to cut down on the rust and black water. I’ve researched Plasma quench on this site. We also have a media blaster and use Holdtight 102 to prevent flash rust after blasting. Has anyone used Holdtight 102 in their water table? Curious if it would work or not. I’ve learned to ask on here before making assumptions...

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Keep in mind what goes in the table will end up in your lungs,be sure to read the msds sheet on the product and how it relates to heat. I use to run Dynaflux but switched to laundry soda . A $4 55oz box will treat aprox 70 gal of water (.8oz / gal ratio) Get some litmus strips to check the PH and keep it above 10.

[dblas]

New guy to the site, we have a water table and keep the level about 1/4" from the top of the slats. As for "topping it off" we just add water. Just started using it again after sitting for 8 months after a move, and had to clean the sludge out of the pan that was left behind from the water evaporating out. Not too terrible and the slats and pan were fairly clean. We make our own plasma quench using Sodium nitrate and a bacteriacide with no issue.

[dracing76]

Here is a recipe for home cooked "Plasma Quench".

Here's the recipe for home-made PlasmaQuench
1/4 pound of sodium nitrite powder ($15/pound) "anti-rust additive" NOTE: nitrite NOT nitrate!
1 teaspoon of Physan 20 ($8/8oz bottle) "antibacterial/antifungal additive"
1 oz Ultramarine blue food-grade dye ($5/oz.) "color added so folks won't drink out of it!"
Mix well, treats 75 gallons of water.
All prices include tax and/or shipping.

FLEA BAY!
I made my own water table and anyone with a little metal working experience should be able to do it. You can follow the build of my table at http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63124 If I can do it, anyone can.

Can I use borax for an ingredient? I read that somewhere just making sure. Thanks in advance!!

[ROKCRLER]

Can I use borax for an ingredient? I read that somewhere just making sure. Thanks in advance!!

Ive been using 1/2 box of borax in my 4x8 with great results.
Im having to fill my table quite often with the Alabama humidity and evaporation.

[adbuch]

Can I use borax for an ingredient? I read that somewhere just making sure. Thanks in advance!!

Ive been using 1/2 box of borax in my 4x8 with great results.
Im having to fill my table quite often with the Alabama humidity and evaporation.

That's a good tip on the borax. I used to use Hengstefer's S500CF added to the water in my water tray, but lately the water has been evaporating so quickly that I have just been putting in regular water when I use the table (maybe ever several weeks or so). My water tray is 48" x 48" x 4" deep and I usually fill it to a level of about 3 inches, and it probably evaporates 1" per week when not in use. I'm in Arizona where outside temps are around 100 degrees this time of year..
David

More photos here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/h8LHufi6frttfGNQA

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[dracing76]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR SPEEDY RESPONSE!!!

[Improvise]

Can I use borax for an ingredient? I read that somewhere just making sure. Thanks in advance!!

Ive been using 1/2 box of borax in my 4x8 with great results.
Im having to fill my table quite often with the Alabama humidity and evaporation.

Hi Rokcrler,

Can I ask what size box of Borax you have been using to give me an idea on quantity needed?

Thanks