too much detailed art?

[toko]

I created a simple sign using Sign torch graphics. I used the image of a tree which had fairly fine detail around the edges. When I got to my plasma machine (Dynatorch) It popped up error message "chech I and J values" I'm suspicious some of those edges are so fine that my torch path is actually intersect a previous cut. Not sure on that though. Any Ideas?
By the way I used turbonest to create the code.

[SignTorch Vector Art]

You could delete the cross-posts in the corel thread since it doesn't sound like a corel problem, unless you are using corel, in which case if you output a DXF from corel, it can create a DXF substantially different than the original.

I don't have dynatorch software, I think they use Cut Studio for art import, and other software for CAM processing, not sure where I & J variables originate or what they mean.

You can email files to store (at) signtorch.com, I'll take a look, might help to know what I & J means, and the basic steps taken....

Lots of people experience initial difficulty, but often times they are going about it the wrong way, like trying to import the GIF format or something like that. I've tested dynatorch systems and didn't notice any issues.

[WSS]

I use two SignTorch bundles on our Dynatorch and have really good luck. If you have cutting shop, you can use the optomize tool to get rid of any suspect nodes. May be just too much detail like you said. If you want send me the file number (I probably have it) and I can run it through we-cim and onto dt software and demo cut it to see if anything is out of sorts. PM me if you want to.

WSS

[toko]

I'm curious what you would do to smooth some of the jagged lines just a bit.

[WSS]

Toko, listen, I opened the drawing and there are elements of copyrighted material in it. Companies like SignTorch and Cascade metal designs make their living from these drawings. Lets support them by not posting them here for others to copy. I figure I will say it before the meanies get a hold of you

OK, That said, I have actually cut the main banyon and elephant image with good results. I "optimized" the file and eliminated over 75% of the nodes. The file size is now 87kb. It did remove too much detail as I did it quick just to see. We use we-cim and cutting shop to push files to the Dynatorch software. we-cim is basically the lion at the gate, if we-cim does not like it then neither will DT. You will need to reduce the nodes in the file to get it to cut good. The elements in the oval are not true arcs, but are a whole lot of small lines.

I can rework it a bit if you would like to cut it. I could send it to you ready to cut as a tap file later this week if you can wait.

WSS

[toko]

OOPS; I was getting too wrapped up in my problem to think of that. Hey Don't tell me Wecim is the answer! Just kidding. We have it at the shop but it got blasted to oblivion after we demod Turbonest. (They had a good year and 6k doesn't make them gulp like it used too!!!) I could probably use the Keyspan for Wecim at home now that we aren't using in the shop but my experience with the cutting shop workspace was limited. It definitely was not as user friendly as corel. But Hey Hats off to anyone who has mastered Wecim and Cutting Shop. Maybe we just didn't have the patience. I'd like to run my files thru as few programs as possible ya know. And Hey I'd like to see that file just to see what it looks like after you did your thing on it. Thanks!

PS I could post pics and try and sell stuff like that though right?

[WSS]

We rely heavily on we-cim. Cutting shop I use somewhat personally for weekend stuff when the machine is not grinding out crusher parts. I have never tried turbonest. 6K, wow! One neat feature of cuttingshop is it's raster conversion. Sometimes guys will bring me a paper template or even a actual part and if I can fit it on my scan bed, I can have a ready to cut part in minutes that has a .010" tolerance.

To get my head around we-cim and cuttingshop, I did some online onoe-on-one training with the owner, did that a few times and can generally get what i need done now.

I will work that same file up for you and get it back to you Friday or so. PM me with an email addy to send to.

You can post the pics of course when you are done. It is the files that are protected. No worries I am sure.

WSS

[SignTorch Vector Art]

OK, the problem seems to be mainly with how corel outputs DXF files.

If your CNC software can read DXF splines correctly, then you can import the CMX format in corel and export DXF version 2000 or later, the splines will be exactly like the bezier curves of normal vector formats like CMX, EPS, AI, SVG, etc...

Most CNC software cannot read splines, and so you must export DXF version 11 or earlier from corel. Versions in between 11 and 2000 seem to output splines sometimes, in my test it appears an ellipse exports as segments, but if converted to a curve it exports as splines in those versions.

Now, Corel DXF does not have arcs, it always makes too few or too many small line segments in place of every curve.

Some systems can handle that many vertices without too many problems.

To minimize the number of vertices, you can import one of my DXFs (without arcs), don't change any line segments to curves, and it will export the same number of DXF vertices as corel nodes that it started with. My DXFs (without arcs)have a medium number of vertices.

The problem is when you export any small curves, they become many small line segments. Even if you have a perfect DXF with arcs, once you bring it into corel, the arcs become curves, which become many small line segments when you try to get back to DXF from corel.

After the fact, the only way to correct having too many vertices is if your DXF CNC software has curve optimizing features to reduce the number of nodes.

But now, a new problem has surfaced, if you draw a large ellipse and export to segmented DXF (V11), then (with corel X5) the DXF will have only 33 line segments, which is not enough, it makes the ellipse looks faceted.

The solution is to convert the ellipse to a curve, double click the node tool (to select all 4 nodes), then hit the plus key (to add nodes in between the selected nodes), so you have 8 nodes instead of 4, then when you export the DXF it will have 66 vertices instead of 33 and will look less faceted. For larger ellipses press plus key twice to make 16 nodes and the DXF will have 130 vertices.

I sure sympahtize with new users running into all these issues, corel is so good it's so ironic that their DXF output is so lame for CNC. It was meant for desktop publishing. Using it for CNC can be a real science project.

[toko]

I really appreciate the input! Wow I had no idea it was this complicated! If I knew something that for sure worked I would be more willing to buy it. Like The Cutting Shop by Arbor image can do all that I gather but for me to use it after working with corel draw it seem EXTREMELY cumbersome for zooming and panning and such like. Maybe some of you know some shortcuts in that line. Like is it possible to customize cutting shop to zoom with the mouse wheel? That right there would be worth a ton. I guess i'll slog on here with corel and see if I can learn the ropes. More suggestions and instructions are very welcome. Gary What about that tree; or anything for that matter, what method would you use to smooth out some of those edges a little in corel?

[WSS]

I think the mouse wheel to zoom is default in cutting shop. Ours is. panning is just click and drag. A couple of keyboard commands to "zoom extents" and things like that too.

WSS

[SignTorch Vector Art]

Gary What about that tree; or anything for that matter, what method would you use to smooth out some of those edges a little in corel?

I don't know any program that will intelligently simplify (make the valleys shallower and the peaks lower) to obtain a less detailed shape without loosing the artistic essence. In corel, the smooth nodes command just makes a mess. I don't know any vector program that can do much better.

If I had to simplify that, I would export a large raster image of the part to be smoothed (can't smooth the elephants too much or they'll look like porky pig), then I would open that in photoshop, select the black, smooth the selection however much is necessary, replace the original with the smoothed shape, then retrace in raster to vector.

for reference this is the project

kerf2.gif

how about this would make the objects bigger and remove some detail

kerf3.gif

you typically have to scale my detailed art up more for plasma, you'd need .03" kerf or smaller to cut the original elephant image at 1x scale

[toko]

I think the mouse wheel to zoom is default in cutting shop. Ours is. panning is just click and drag. A couple of keyboard commands to "zoom extents" and things like that too.

WSS

Any Idea how to change those setting?