A LASER on the PlasmaCam Table

[Joe Jones]

I had a nice conversation with Jason, the owner of PlasmaCam the other day. He is always friendly and pleasant!

We discussed a few things, but among the topics was the concept of mounting a LASER onto the PlasmaCam table.

He pointed out the fact that LASERS can be dangerous. PlasmaCam does have the ability to facilitate the mounting of a laser onto the PlasmaCam table, and DesignEdge does have the ability to run the table with a laser in the same way it "can" run the table with a router, but since it is an OPEN table with none of the proper protective screens, or an enclosure, or any guarantee that the owner would even bother to wear protective eyewear while running a laser, PlasmaCam is understandably reluctant to become involved in making it possible to put a laser on the table, out of the REALISTIC fear that someone would WATCH the laser as it cuts and perhaps do permanent damage to their eyes.

I know that some table owners do experiment with the cheaper eBay blue lasers, and the red lasers, and others ... but the official position of PlasmaCam seems to be that mounting a laser to the carriage is not advised! What you do outside of the scope of the table's design is on YOU.

With that said, I did buy a red laser to play with, but the focal length is wrong, so I am searching for a nice BLUE laser to mount to the table, to experiment with burning intricate designs into wood and plastics. Of course I assume all responsibility for any injuries that may result from this unsanctioned modification to my table.

Joe



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[acourtjester]

I have been working on attaching a Blue Diode Laser to my DIY table. and have been getting very nice results. The safety aspect is common with any tool and as stated up to the person using it of in the area where one is being used. There are 2 areas to consider, software and mounting of the laser.
The mounting is fairly easy main problem is how to fasten it on the table. I have the option of mounting a router on my table so I just drilled and taped 2 mounting holes to hold on a bracket. I 3-D printed an adjustable mount for the laser body so I have 2 height adjustments (manual and the Z axis). This gives me room to do mug or tumbler etching if I want.
The software is open, for the start I used a Arduino with GRBL firmware for testing and moved back to the UCCNC controller so I could have the Plasm and router. Other open software can be used as the g-code needs to be able to modulate the laser signal for its etching/cutting output. For simplicity I have a manual on/off switch for the laser's main power (12 volts some use 24 volts) and the modulation signal is B axis stepper output that is triggered by the G-code. This gives me another optional attachment for my DIY table, one tool multi uses. image of glass and white tile etching
Great video and there are many more for different materials too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy5FrL1yhCg

[Joe Jones]

I have been working on attaching a Blue Diode Laser to my DIY table. and have been getting very nice results.

Yeeeaaahhhh ... I know absolutely nothing about this stuff yet.

On the PLUS side, I did buy a 50 watt laser table I just haven't played with it much ...

Joe

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[acourtjester]

There are many different projects you can do with a laser, have fun

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Tom,

I think Joe is finding creative ways not to finish his powder coating oven and tubing cutter attachments

[Joe Jones]

Tom,

I think Joe is finding creative ways not to finish his powder coating oven and tubing cutter attachments

Update: A recent STRONG wind storm picked up my oven frame and dropped in on its side. The frame broke apart into three panels and a roof. Bent metal. Pulled screws. Dented corners ... I have not gone out there yet to fix it. it is just too %$^& HOT to work out there right now. Maybe tonight???

I have a club motorcycle ride on Saturday, so maybe Sunday??? Rain and thunderstorms? I don't have anyone here to help me do anything.

Joe


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[SegoMan DeSigns]

That sucks, do you think there is a subliminal message here??

[Joe Jones]

That sucks, do you think there is a subliminal message here??

I don't know. Sometimes I think God doesn't want me to work in my shops.

My neighbor's kid was 14 when I moved in. He would mow my lawn, and he was always there to help me. But he grew up and now he is a contractor with his own business, so he has no time to help out "Ol' Joe!"

The next neighbor's kid is now a teenager, but he is so involved in home schooling, sports, and such, that he doesn't have any spare time for me.

The third neighbor has two toddlers. In about 12 years, the boy might be able to help me!

People I have HIRED have ripped me off. Expensive tools go missing, all of that %$^&

Dave was a great helper, but I paid him well. His round trip to my house and back was nearly 60 miles, so I paid him $20.00 per day for gas and the "wear and tear" on his car, and also for his lunch, and $15.00 per hour CASH for his time. Unfortunately, he had a massive stroke on New Year's Eve. so he is no longer available.

My only other friend who is available, is a man nearly 80. He is smart and willing, but not "shop helper" familiar with power hand tools and machines. Also, I worry about him lifting heavy things, or climbing ladders.

I have hired people who show up in an old car with their wife, children and even the dog in the car. They sit there in the car while these workers do the job ... but every time I turn my back, they are at the car talking to the kids, or kissing the wife, or petting the dog! That is NOT what I am paying you to do!

Then there are the young helpers with ZERO work ethics. They believe that "showing up" constitutes their day's pay. I have told them to turn their phones OFF or leave them in the car, and I get the pouty faces... One guy seemed to be a viable helper, but when I told him he'd have to leave his phone in the car, he LEFT!

We have an entire generation of young people who have no CLUE what WORK is.

Joe

[robertspark]

I gave up messing with swapping a laser in and out or on and off a router and plasma table and just bought one of these

https://www.atomstack.net/products/atom ... 7754899637

works very nice I shopped around and found it cheaper a while ago

[acourtjester]

I have this one with the roller attachment for mug or tumbler etching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMw2vqhJEOk (20 Watt). I also have the dual diode laser module which I have on my CNC table. The Ortur will be on its way soon. I may look into the https://www.atomstack.net/collections/l ... 5252532474 soon as it is more powerful with 4 diode lasers.

[Joe Jones]

Question: Assuming the main differences between the CO2 lasers and the blue diode lasers are POWER and SPEED, are those the ONLY reasons one might opt to fork out umpteen thousands of dollars for an Epilog laser or a KERN laser table as opposed to just finding the most powerful blue diode laser with the largest work area?

I like both the Epilog and the KERN offerings, but the price difference is considerable! I kick myself every day, because I SHOULD have purchased the KERN OptiPlex laser table from FabTech when I had the chance. They made me one Hell of a good offer to move it directly from the trade show in Chicago to my shop in Kentucky! I would have saved nearly $50,000.00 I had just sold my retail store on the Square, and I had the 1/4 Million dollars in CASH to buy the thing! So much has changed since then. I have financed my truck and motorcycle, and done many other things with that money.

Are there other notable advantages to the more expensive lasers? Perhaps the LIFE of the laser itself, or the ability to cut through thicker material, or ??? The cheaper lasers offer the rotary option in some fashion. Maybe the cheaper lasers are limited in their size. The KERN OptiPlex could etch a 60"x100" glass door, for example in a single pass with a 400 watt CO2 laser, and FAST.

I have been toying with the idea of taking the plunge to get a REAL laser to add to my shop, you know ... for my 'Golden Years' It is true that NONE of my machines are being used at the moment. I am trying to force myself to get back out there. The powder coat oven was a motivator, until the storm did a "Wizard of OZ" job to the thing. Lots of work will be needed to get back to where it was now. and this %$^&* HEAT WAVE isn't helping!

However, with all of that, I would not hesitate to buy a REAL blue diode laser machine that is not a toy if I could pick one up for the $1,000 - $3,000.00 range. The laser machine I have is awesome, but I haven't experimented with it enough to be content with it, and I am told that the work area is 10"x10" AT BEST. I may sell it if, when I DO finally sit down to put it through its paces, I discover that the limited work area size is too restrictive.

Joe



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[weldguy]

CO2 lasers are typically much larger due to the resonance tube that generates the beam and can be finicky as I believe many use mirrors to direct the beam from the resonance tube to the work piece. These diode lasers are very intriguing and much more compact.

[acourtjester]

With not only mirrors but water cooling too. Here is a small etching I did today on 4" tile as a test. Image download from the web.

[robertspark]

the thing to watch or be aware of with (diode) lasers is the bottom end of the power control is not so good and it tends to drop off (think grey scale range..... the tones nearest white are not so good on a high powered laser)

I have the M50 (2*5w diodes). it cuts great. I use it for 3mm plywood, cardboard templates or first run trial cuts before wasting steel and gaskets

it's ok at etching but needs to be tuned as it's a bit of a brute..... the m100 (4*5w laser diodes) will be even better at cutting but the low end will have a higher cutoff point

all lasers degrade and need to be replaced at some point even the co2 laser tubes need to be replaced over time I am not sure what laser is on the end of a fiber laser I presume it's co2 with a fiber optic cord instead of mirrors.

I use the atomstack air assist too as it's neat and also have the rotary tumbler attachment (not used yet .... not enough hours in the day)

[FabLab]

all lasers degrade and need to be replaced at some point even the co2 laser tubes need to be replaced over time I am not sure what laser is on the end of a fiber laser I presume it's co2 with a fiber optic cord instead of mirrors.

FYI.
A Fiber laser is totally different than Co2. Co2 cannot be run down fiber optics it requires mirrors...

I don't fully understand how Fiber laser systems work (I have a better understanding on Co2) but I do know that CO2 is in the IR (infrared) range. Fiber is in the visible light range

[robertspark]

thanks for that

[rdj357]

Just for clarification, fiber laser is not visible. As for putting a laser on a Plasmacam - it's not something I'll ever be doing. I can buy an appropriate machine that can handle the speeds and acceleration required for good laser cutting/engraving much easier than try to retrofit something. If you're planning on cutting with a fiber source, you'll have to throw height control out the window and go with something else that is capacitive based.

Fiber is ~1060 nm
CO2 is ~ 10,600 nm

Visible light is 380-700 m

[Joe Jones]

I don't know I look at the 20W blue diode laser on the X-Tool and other home laser machines. I don't see any appreciable difference between mounting the laser on the X-tool gantry and carriage, and mounting the same laser on the PlasmaCam table. Given the limited size of the work area on the X-Tool machine, I would think that having the same capabilities on a 4x4 DCH2 or 5x10 Samson table would be a nifty additional capability. I sure would not mind being able to burn a detailed scene into the side of a nice 4x8 sheet of plywood.

The REAL laser tables are probably smoother than the PlasmaCam tables as far as maintaining a vibration-free movement. Other than that, what is the real difference? I think this would be very doable.

I'm going to eBay to search for one of these 20 Watt Blue Diode lasers to see if I can buy JUST THAT, and not the whole machine. I think it would only take a little bit of Redneck Engineering to make it a reality.

Why couldn't I buy the X-Tool 20W laser setup, and simply mount the components onto the PlasmaCam gantry instead of the tiny 16"x16" frame they send with their machine?

Joe



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[cutnweld]

where can you buy a laser power source? I wold like to build a laser table but have no idea where to find laser. $-6 kw would be nice, and no it does not need to go 1000000000 miles per second, i cut mainly thicker plate steel

[Joe Jones]

where can you buy a laser power source? I wold like to build a laser table but have no idea where to find laser. $-6 kw would be nice, and no it does not need to go 1000000000 miles per second, i cut mainly thicker plate steel

A 6KW laser? I know they sell laser machines with that kind of power, but I don't think you can buy one off the shelf and add it to a home built table. I have no CLUE where you could get one of those, or I'd already have one ... on the front of my truck, with a heads up targeting system!

POW! WHAT traffic light camera?

Joe

[Joe Jones]

I am tempted to buy one of those 20 watt X-Tool systems and mount the components onto a PlasmaCam table, JUST to see how it would perform. If it didn't work, I could return the laser components to the factory X-Tool frame and use it that way.

Joe


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[plasmanewbie]

A 6KW laser? I know they sell laser machines with that kind of power, but I don't think you can buy one off the shelf and add it to a home built table. I have no CLUE where you could get one of those, or I'd already have one ... on the front of my truck, with a heads up targeting system!

POW! WHAT traffic light camera?

Joe

LOL, that's exactly why you can't just go out an buy one

[cutnweld]

https://www.cloudraylaser.com/collectio ... ser-source
I just don't like going overseas for things tho

[cutnweld]

Alright Joe, another thing to add to your to do list!

[Joe Jones]

I have a handheld laser. It is billet aluminum, and looks very much like a light saber. It is SUPPOSED to have a lens on the front, and it puts out a light show on a wall, or a ceiling, or the side of a mall. Well, as it happens, you can turn the laser ON without the lens attached. The manufacturer did not put a safety switch on it to prevent that from happening. Without the diffuser lens that makes pretty patterns, you have a handheld 10,000 nw (1 watt) blue laser that is quite capable.

The salesman told me, "These will be illegal to sell in two days. We were ordered to reduce the power, and make them so they cannot be turned on WITHOUT the diffuser lens. I only have four left to sell. You should get one NOW." I thought he was just lying, but it was true. They had made a batch of them with 1 watt lasers and no safety features. The new one needed to be powered down quite a bit. You can now find the exact same laser on eBay, but it is only 4nw of power. The bad thing about this laser is that the batteries can only power it for about 300 seconds.

So I had it in the back of my Goldwing on a tour in 2012. I brought it to experiment with etching wood and such, at night, in place of a magnifying glass in the sunlight. It will easily set a paper towel on fire, and I have hand cut holes into the lid of a Rubbermaid Roughneck trash can. It IS powerful, but it only lasts a few minutes on a charge.

The Harley guys next to me were ribbing me about my Goldwing ... "Jap bike ... Not a Harley ..." All in fun, of course. So that evening, they were building a campfire in the fire ring ... They piled in the wood, and tried to light the kindling with matches, with no luck. "It won't light! It is wet!" I grabbed the laser and said, "I've got this." I rested in onto the edge of the fire pit to steady it. I turned it on and held the blue laser light on one small piece of wood. A few seconds later, the kindling caught fire. I calmly put the laser back into the case, now with a nearly depleted battery.

They were absolutely SILENT. Then one guy finally asked, "Are you from NASA?"

Joe

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