[ Unusual Problem with a Hypertherm unit – low gas pressure ]

[Togata]

Dear PlasmaSpider Community,

I am an owner of a Hypertherm Powermax 45 XP unit used for cutting. I have a question in regards to gas pressure.
The operating manual indicates that the inlet pressure must be between a minimum of 87 PSI to 135 PSI.
I supply 87 PSI and even 101 PSI or 116 PSI. I use an air compressor with enough air flow and a refrigerated dryer to clean the air.
My manometer confirm the supplied air to the unit, I also used the right hoses to supply the Hypertherm unit.
My problem relates to the pressure check, that I do each time before cutting.
The results is the same every time, it displays: 66 PSI.
If I supply 87PSI, 101PSI or 116PSI, the result of the pressure check stays the same: 66 PSI.

Does that mean that the Hypertherm PM 45XP only needs 66PSI to cut? or is something wrong with my unit?.

I would appreciate any inputs or ideas. and also opinions from current or previous 45XP owners.

Thank you in advance for reading thus far.

Best regards,

Togata

[weldguy]

That machine will adjust the gas pressure for you to the appropriate pressure for the amperage you have selected.

You can enter manual mode which it sounds like you are doing. When you read the 66psi on your LCD is the mode light to the left of the mode adjust knob blinking?

If it were me I would use it in auto mode, there is really no reason to manually adjust it. Maybe for a gouging application or something but not for cutting.

[Togata]

Dear Weldguy,

Thank you for replying, you need to know that I get 66PSI as a result of the pressure check in auto mode not manual mode. I know the difference between them. This is cutting mode not gouging.

By the way, when I enter the manual mode of the pressure check, I can set a pressure between 61 PSI and 75 PSI, nothing more and nothing less. Even if I use different amperage like 30, 40 or 45 Amps.

The amperage could be 30 or 40 or 45 Amps, I still get 66PSI in my auto mode pressure check.

If you need any more information please do not hesitate to ask me.

I thank you again for taking the time to reply.

Best regards,

Togata

[adbuch]

Dear PlasmaSpider Community,

I am an owner of a Hypertherm Powermax 45 XP unit used for cutting. I have a question in regards to gas pressure.
The operating manual indicates that the inlet pressure must be between a minimum of 87 PSI to 135 PSI.
I supply 87 PSI and even 101 PSI or 116 PSI. I use an air compressor with enough air flow and a refrigerated dryer to clean the air.
My manometer confirm the supplied air to the unit, I also used the right hoses to supply the Hypertherm unit.
My problem relates to the pressure check, that I do each time before cutting.
The results is the same every time, it displays: 66 PSI.
If I supply 87PSI, 101PSI or 116PSI, the result of the pressure check stays the same: 66 PSI.

Does that mean that the Hypertherm PM 45XP only needs 66PSI to cut? or is something wrong with my unit?.

I would appreciate any inputs or ideas. and also opinions from current or previous 45XP owners.

Thank you in advance for reading thus far.

Best regards,

Togata

How is your 45xp cutting? What is the quality of the cuts? Please provide some photos of the parts you are cutting. I personally own and use a 45xp and have never bothered to check the internally regulated pressure setting. My cuts are great, and I supply 100 psi to my cutter as measured at the entrance to the machine (gas port) while the air if flowing. Same with my Powermax 85.

These cutters have internal regulators which regulate the supplied pressure down to that required by the cutter. This does not mean that you only need to supply 66 psi to the machine gas port.

David

[djreiswig]

I believe the cutter adjusts the pressure depending on the length of the torch lead. Longer lead needs more pressure due to line loss.

[Togata]

Dear adbuch and djreiswig,
Thank you both for replying, I will answer your questions in order.

Q:How is your 45xp cutting? What is the quality of the cuts?
A: Seems good for now, I still cannot get perfect circles, I notice this a lot when the circles are too small, like a diameter of 0.315 inch (8.0 mm in SI), I will share photos as soon as possible.
By the way I cut using Finecut consumables, using the data on the cutting chart of the manual.
I own a mechanized torch Duramax for Powermax 45 XP, with 25 foot lead.

I would like to ask you adbuch, If you could try the pressure check on your 45XP? You can also tell me how much length does your lead has? I am curious to see your results, and would help me know if my situation is normal or not.


Q: Longer lead needs more pressure due to line loss.
A: I have 25 foot lead, Duramax mechanized torch for Powermax 45XP

[weldguy]

OK, I have read your replies above. If you have a pressure gauge on the inlet of the plasma cutter and it reads over 100psi all the time and your 45XP is showing no error codes and your cut quality is good with the exception of smaller holes I wouldn't worry about your air supply and just move on to trying to improve your small hole cut quality. Could be cut speed (should be 50-60% slower for holes smaller than 1") and/ or cut direction. Definatley curious to hear if Davids 45XP behaves the same as yours. I have never used one so I know little about the 45XP.

[Togata]

Thank you weldguy,

I am definitely curious as well about how David's 45XP will behaves on a pressure check.
It will help me really confirm or deny my suspicions on air supply problems.

[adbuch]

I will check the internal pressure on my 45xp the next time I use it. Meanwhile, please show us some photos of your problematic cuts (both sides) with specific details about the settings you are using. You say "book settings" but best to tell us exactly what you are using. There is a specific swirl ring for the FineCuts - what swirl ring are you using? As was previously mentioned, if you have no error light indicating on the front panel of you machine, then you internal air pressure is fine and you are "barking up the wrong tree". Again - show us some photos. If you need help on how to post photos, let us know and we will lead you thru the process.
David

[Togata]

I will check the internal pressure on my 45xp the next time I use it. Meanwhile, please show us some photos of your problematic cuts (both sides) with specific details about the settings you are using. You say "book settings" but best to tell us exactly what you are using. There is a specific swirl ring for the FineCuts - what swirl ring are you using? As was previously mentioned, if you have no error light indicating on the front panel of you machine, then you internal air pressure is fine and you are "barking up the wrong tree". Again - show us some photos. If you need help on how to post photos, let us know and we will lead you thru the process.
David

Dear David,

Thank you for replying,
Here are some photos of my recent cuts, please have a look:

image1


image2


image3


image4


image5


image6


image7

[Togata]

Now I will add my consumables current condition photos, for your information I got my first yellow LED torch cap error, the led blinks at a rate of 1 second.

consu1


cons2


cons3


cons4


cons5


cons6


cons7


cons8


cons9


cons10


cons11

[Togata]

My settings are the following:

settings

In regard to the Pierce delay time, there is no "PIERCE delay time" in my cnc controller, so I entered 0.5 seconds for PIERCE TIME, and 0.2 seconds for FIRST PIERCE time. I decided using these values as a result of multiple trial and error. Here is a picture of my controller cnc.


settingsCNC

I hope this helps, and reply to your question.

If you need any information please do not hesitate!

Thank you again for your time and consideration.

Best regards,

Togata

[adbuch]

Are you actually cutting 0.5mm (0.020") thick material? Steel of stainless steel? For one thing, it might be time to install a new electrode and nozzle. See if that makes a difference. Is there an error code associated with your blinking light?
David

[Togata]

Dear David,

Yes, I am cutting 0.5 mm (0.020'') thick material. It is galvanized sheet.
I can't read the error code, because my 45XP unit doesn't display it. And my CNC controller doesn't display it either.
My Hypertherm unit was supplied without RS-485 serial cable. I have the Machine interface (CPC) cable connected to my CNC controller only.

By the way, the depth inside the electrode doesn't seem to exceed 1.6mm yet and the nozzle opening still has a circular shape.
Visually, how did you conclude it might be time to install a new electrode and nozzle? I am really curious.

On the other hand, have you tried the pressure check on your 45XP unit?

Thanks again for reading and taking the time to reply.

Best regards,

Togata

[adbuch]

Your cuts don't look all that bad. What is your main complaint about your cut quality? Have you tried cutting some thicker material? If you are happy with your consumables, then keep using them. You will need to check to find the source of your error light. Check your o-ring to make sure it is ok. I only use the 45xp several times a year, and only with my rotary cutter. I am using the PM 85 on my main table, and haven't turned it on in several weeks or more. My business is basically cnc machining, and I use the cnc plasma occasionally when I need it. So perhaps others will chime in here with pressure readings from their 45xp machines.
David

[weldguy]

After seeing the pics of your used consumables I would say that the best thing you could do at this point is clean up your air supply. That is an excessive amount of carbon staining inside your nozzle and the electrode looks very overheated and stained as well. My guess is you have some oil vapor and I am sure some humidity as well. If you have a filter system already it's not working well. Once you get a good filter system you will slowly see improvements over time as you slowly evacuate the contaminates from the air lines leading up to your plasma cutter inside your 25' Hypertherm torch lead. Once cleared out you will see dramatic improvements in consumable life and cut quality, you will even be able to hear that is is cutting better. It takes time but the best time to start is right now before you contaminate your 45XP any further. Lots of folks here use the Sharpe 3 stage filter/dryer you may want to look into that.

[adbuch]

After seeing the pics of your used consumables I would say that the best thing you could do at this point is clean up your air supply. That is an excessive amount of carbon staining inside your nozzle and the electrode looks very overheated and stained as well. My guess is you have some oil vapor and I am sure some humidity as well. If you have a filter system already it's not working well. Once you get a good filter system you will slowly see improvements over time as you slowly evacuate the contaminates from the air lines leading up to your plasma cutter inside your 25' Hypertherm torch lead. Once cleared out you will see dramatic improvements in consumable life and cut quality, you will even be able to hear that is is cutting better. It takes time but the best time to start is right now before you contaminate your 45XP any further. Lots of folks here use the Sharpe 3 stage filter/dryer you may want to look into that.

Food for thought!!

[Togata]

Dear welguy and adbuch,

I really appreciate your effort to help me, and I hope this thread could be helpful to other who could fall into the same situation as mine.

The filtering system is a good road, I will look into that and I will look into the Sharpe 3 stage filter/dryer.

On the other hand, I am a bit suspicious about the outcome of adding another filter, hear me out.

I have a air compressor that has an airflow output exceeding what the 45XP unit needs, but the compressor airflow and pressure output is less by a factor of near half from what the refrigerated dryer can support.

Which means that the refrigerated dryer can dry the whole density coming from the compressor, without being overcharged. Moreover, I have a filter dryer already installed before the refrigerated dryer, and a monometer regulator with a filter before the 45XP.
Each morning when I purge the manometer I find no humidity.
I will leave some images below:
[img1]https://i.ibb.co/mN80zGj/1.jpg[/img]
[img2]https://i.ibb.co/X2x6Zz5/2.jpg[/img]
[img3]https://i.ibb.co/ft6sBbS/3.jpg[/img]

My setup is the following: air compressor --> recipient 10 L (2.65 gallon) --> Air filter --> Refrigerated dryer --> manometer regulator with filter --> Hypertherm Powermax 45XP unit.
Maybe I am barking again at the wrong tree. I am still a beginner in the space, would love to hear your point of view.

Thank again for taking the time to help.

Best regards,

Togata

[adbuch]

But humidity and oil contamination are two entirely different problems. It is possible to have dry oily air, and as previously stated your consumables look to be oil fouled.
David

[Togata]

Thank you, I wanted to have your opinion on that, I will look into adding another filter.

[adbuch]

You may possibly need a new compressor, of the one you are using is emitting lots of oil into the air supply. Or at least a rebuild.
David

[Togata]

the recipient is 600 L (158.5 gallon) not 10 L (2.65 gallon), sorry I was typing fast.

[Togata]

Dear Adbuch and weldguy,

Here is an image of the setup of our shop.
[setup]https://i.ibb.co/WN9DDTq/SETUP-PROCESS.jpg[/img]

If I am right, the multiple stage filter needs to be mounted before the refrigerated air dryer? or can we install it between the manometer and the Hypertherm unit? Knowing that only the HYPertherm unit needs the an air fully filtered and dried.

On the other hand, I want to know if the SHARPE 705FC 2-STAGE AIR FILTER sufficient because I already got the refrigerated air dryer?

The specifications of my current air filter: " Get rid of the vapor, oil mist and particles which bigger than 0.01 micrometers, oil content in the air: =< 0.01 mg/m^3 (PPM) at 21°C "

Thank you in advance for your reply.

[weldguy]

Hey Togata

Thanks for the extra info. I see you have a well designed setup. How contaminants are getting to your plasma cutter are a mystery to me but when you see carbon staining like that it without a doubt is. Could be that your filter does not filter fine enough to remove the oil vapor. I believe a dedicated filter/dryer setup inline where your manometer/regulator is would server you very very well. A desiccant dryer after your refrigerated dryer is ideal as your desiccant will last a very long time before having to be dried out and a desiccant dryer has a lower dewpoint than the refrigerated dryer so you will have even dryer air.

[Togata]

Dear Welguy and Adbuch,

I applied your advices, an upgraded my air filtering setup.
I added 2 more filters which bring me to this configuration.
I am located outside of USA and CANADA, therefore I used the filters I could find in the local market.
My setup consist now of:
the first filter is installer before the refrigerated air dryer.

this filter gets rid of the particles which bigger than 1 micrometer, also collect fluid oil and water, oil content in the air: =< 0.5mg/m^3(PPM) at 21°C

the second filter is installer after the refrigerated air dryer.

this filter gets rid of the vapor, oil mist and particles which bigger than 0.01 micrometer, oil content in the air: =< 0.01mg/m^3(PPM) at 21°C.

the third filter is installer after the the second filter.

this filter gets rid of the vapor, oil mist and particles which bigger than 0.01 micrometer, oil content in the air: =< 0.001mg/m^3(PPM) at 21°C.

What do you think guys of this combination? I will post my results once I am back in the shop.

On the other hand, I have noticed a strange result on my cut (this story relates before adding the new filtering setup). I got my last cut with a color different than what was expected (you can compare with the cuts photos that I posted above in my early post related to this thread).
I will link the image of the strange cut results below:


When I checked the consumables, the electrode has just surpassed the 1.6mm in thickness so I believe I didn't overuse it more than accepted.
Is this result normal? once the electrode is dead? By the way the other consumables were still in great shape.

Thank you in advance for reading thus far, and taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it!