Looking for some help dialing in a Proma SD on a new machine

[xnaron]

Meh for the life of me I can't get M10/11 working in Mach 3 Version R3.043.066 on latest windows 10

Output 5 is configured correctly and I have tested the relay working in mach 3. From what I have read the M10P5 will turn on Output 5 and M11P5 will turn off Output 5 with the caveat that it happens on the next axis move. I am using the following code to test. The Output 5 relay does not activate.


G0 X0 Y0 Z0
F100
M11P5 G1 X2
M10P5 G0 Y1 X0
M11P5 G1 X2
M10P5 G0 X0 Y0
M30
%


My m10.m1s looks like this and the m11.m1s is the same but DeactivateSignal instead. I am at a loss to why it is not working. F!@!##!% Mach 3 or maybe the motion controller I have doesn't support it.

Annotation 2020-07-17 202920.png (30.53 KiB) Viewed 4776 times

Annotation 2020-07-17 202920.png (30.53 KiB) Viewed 4776 times

[robertspark]

does your motion controller support M11/M10?

it is a function that needs to be written into the firmware of the motion controller.

otherwise it simply won't work
(that is why I use uccnc..... spoilt for synchronous macros for thc control....)

and I sold my always in development ESS....(nice hardware, really poor support)

[djreiswig]

M11 is activate and m10 is deactivate. They're backwards from the way you would think.

[robertspark]

M11 is activate and m10 is deactivate. They're backwards from the way you would think.

there is a logic to me anyway.... M11 = logic "1" (on) and M10 = logic "0" (off)

uccnc is the other way around M10 on, M11 off
Mach4 and linuxcnc use M62 (on) and M63 (off)
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-c ... de:m62-m65

[xnaron]

I have been doing research into what limited information there is on this controller board (rnr motion controller) that came with my crossfire. It looks like it does not support M11/10.

@robertspark are you using a break out board with your uc300eth? I might pick one up as a stop gap while I am building my LinuxCNC controller. Ideally I can just wire it in as a replacement for my controller that is in there now. They are about the same size. Edit: axbb-e controller from them looks like it is an all in one solution that might be easier for me to retrofit. I am trying to figure out how new it is and if it runs the same motion control firmware as the uc300eth. The other all in one is the C76 uc300 from cnc4pc.com.

One idea I am toying with is to make more of a modular controller. I would remove the motion controller board and replace with a connector that would attach to the motion controller module.

This is my existing controller as modified from the stock crossfire controller. I added relay boards, a buck converter to supply 24V for the inputs (was worried about noise but it has been fine), and a 3rd stepper driver for the z axis. There isn't much room in there now.

[robertspark]

I don't understand why you would buy a uc300 only to change to plasmac later...

imo just buy an axbb-e and a uccnc licence and you will have a near perfect CNC machine.... missing only thc.... (comparable with linuxcnc + plasmac without the bonnet time)

I was thinking about maybe having a go at a uccnc plugin thc this afternoon (I don't have need for one but I did wonder about bringing the cost of thc down via a simple plugin comparator board for the axbbe or uc400eth or uc300eth).... the cost below that of the minithc and the price avhc as the display and twiddly knobs are not required

I have used a lot of breakout boards in the past .... any CNC lpt board will do (I have a ud1 from cncroom and a uc1 too

[xnaron]

I have a bunch of cnc machines and I can always use the controller in a new build. My passion is building and tweaking cnc machines. I haven't tried LinuxCNC yet and I view that as more of a learning opportunity and a long term project I will work on slowly in the next 6 months or so. If I make the controller modular I can switch between axbb-e and linuxCNC while I am tweaking/learning LinuxCNC. I've go plans to convert my milling machine to cnc soon as well and need a controller for that. So the controllers won't go to waste

Do you already have a comparator board that you can use or do you need to develop one? If you do start working on one it will be interesting to see what you can come up with.

[robertspark]

comparator board, no but the thought crossed my mind this afternoon as I thought I could undercut on cost for a simple module all set from the screen. (I have a 24" touchscreen that I use with uccnc)

probably the best board is the axbbe from CNCdrive as it is 24v and can control 4 axis directly ..... but not if you have a 5th axis.... but you can control that through the lpt board you can connect to port 3
https://cncdrive.com/AXBB.html

the uc300eth has by far the most ports and pins.
two ports are lpt standard, and 3 are ecp ports with all pins 2-9 as inputs. the ub1 and a ud1-u from cncroom will provide all ports and pins available in a very compact package, but it is expensive.
https://www.cncroom.com/interface-cards/ub1

the uc400eth provides 2x standard pin lpt ports and it too is good for a single machine

the uc100 is a usb plugin lpt port and just provides the one pot port

I have a uc300eth and a uc400eth only.

you could use 2 of these very cheap bobs with the uc300eth or uc400eth
https://www.google.com/search?safe=stri ... s-wiz-serp

or you could use one with the uc100 or to provide port3 breakout from the abbxe as a very cheap solution

for the 3 other ports on the uc300eth you could use three c10 bobs

https://www.cnc4pc.com/c10-bi-direction ... -card.html

and relay boards or solid state relays for high current requirements

[xnaron]

I put in an order request for an axbb-e with a ucncc license on the cncdrive web store. Being that is setup for 24v I'll be able to easily retrofit it into my existing controller as it is running 24v io.


I tried a plasma drilling op and removed the S10 that was trying to turn the THC off. The profiles were smooth now. Very slight divot that I am sure has something to do with my lead in/out settings in sheet cam.

I will try @acourtjester's method of doing the holes next.




I'm really happy that I am cutting dross free profiles now. I am going to pick up some thinner gauge mild steel and some aluminum to try.


Right off the table

After minor cleanup with a putty knife

[robertspark]

in the us, there is cnc4pc

they may ship quicker to you than Hungary...

https://www.cnc4pc.com/motion-control/m ... ucx00.html

the licences are issued in Hungary and are fixed to the hardware serial number.

CNCdrive can take a few days to respond (covid19 is mixed across Europe with what every country is doing)

[robertspark]

have you installed uccnc?

install the development release and take a look, select axbbe when it starts.

it will only run in demo (ie does not output motion) until you get the hardware and the licence file to match it

http://forum.cncdrive.com/viewtopic.php ... 240#p18850

once installed look in the documentation folder for the user manual as it matches the version you install

[Rodw]

imo just buy an axbb-e and a uccnc licence and you will have a near perfect CNC machine.... missing only thc.... (comparable with linuxcnc + plasmac without the bonnet time)

Nothing is comparable to linuxcnc + plasmac
It will be interesting to see your feedback on the conversion when you get to it.
If your Linuxcnc PC has a parallel port, you might be able to keep using your breakout board.
You can run the linuxcnc encoder component and connect a THCAD to it so you'd only be up for $70 plus a 5v power supply.
But a Mesa 7i96 would eliminate all of your relay boards... For your mill though I'd use a 7i76e becasue it has built in support for the spindle.

[acourtjester]

I use same pierce and cut height for dimples and 20 Amps,no offset so not lead-in or outs, the pause then allow you to increase the amp when doing the finishing cuts.

[robertspark]

Nothing is comparable to linuxcnc + plasmac

have you used anything else?

to understand the word "nothing" one must consider the depth and breadth of your experience to arrive at such a final conclusion

hmm maybe you are right! I mean I know of no other system that can require so much under the bonnet time.... if it were a car it would have to be a Landover or rangerover .... more time in the garage than on the road.. . (an I own one.... if I ever get it back together.... most fuel efficient car I've got .... not moved in a while (my own doing))

[xnaron]

@robertspark by the time I read your reply he already got back to me and I paid. Shipping to Canada from US is a bit of a crapshoot right now as well. I am up and running for the time being with my old controller so not in a terrible rush. It was cheaper to buy it from cncdrive too. I just installed the dev version of uccnc now and am playing with it.

@rodw - I am thinking either 7i96 or 7i76e. The 7i96 would be nice because of the ability to eliminate my relay boards. The boards are pretty cheap though. They don't have stock on what I want so need to wait before I can order.

@acourtjester - I need to read your posts again about dimpling the holes and I will give it a try.

[xnaron]

@rodw - I forgot that I do have a PMDX-122 breakout board in my stash. I also have a number of computers with parallel ports I could use. I also have a gecko g540 as well as a bunch of 5v relays as well as power supplies etc. I could throw together a quick and dirty controller for LinuxCNC build.

[Rodw]

@Xenaron, great. Some people use the G540. I've never been a fan of at integrated approach. 4 Lam DS1073 drivers only take up 70mm of DIN rail but probably cost a bit more. The 7i76e is a good choice and if you are into tinkering I'm sure you will consume all 32 inputs and 16 outputs over time.
It only needs 24v and where 5v is needed you can steal it from a spare stepgen. I've never used a parallel port so I cn't help much so ask on the Linuxcnc forum.

Nothing is comparable to linuxcnc + plasmac

have you used anything else?

to understand the word "nothing" one must consider the depth and breadth of your experience to arrive at such a final conclusion

Thats not true. You can rely on reports from other users with more experience. Here is a recent one:
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/hyperthe ... ost2390386
There are many more.

If Linuxcnc wasn't superior to Mach, why did Tormach and CandCNC abandon Mach and adopt it?
Why did Tormach pay a developer to improve the trajectory planner and contribute the code back to the project?

I am OS agnostic and I will choose the best OS to do the task at hand. Heck, I've even paid $10k for hardware that required a Mac! It was abundantly clear to me that Linuxcnc was vastly superior to alternatives in a Windows world when I embarked on my CNC journey. You don't see people doing complete retrofits of complex machining centres on the Mach platform and retain all the existing motors and drives and the tool changer all fully implemented as they were when the machine was new. You do see that with Linuxcnc. You can even reuse the operator controls if you choose.

There are so many superior features in Linuxcnc over Mach. Multispindle support, Gcodes to turn relays on and off without breaking motion (no pauses), and vastly superior probing are just a few. Does Mach have adaptive feeds where the controller itself can apply a feed override based on some input? I've got a plasma use for that one.

You need to separate installation of the OS with installation of the software. Linuxcnc requires a real time operating system. Fortunately the music industry and the automotive industry also requires realtime. Players like BMW have made significant contributions to the PREEMPT_RT kernel. Finally recently some flavours of Linux have patches that allow you to install the PREMPT_RT kernel by typing one line at the command line. The last system I set up (on an Odroid H2+), I just installed mint and patched it. It took about half an hour to be up and running with Linuxcnc using Linux Mint.

The enabling feature that allowed Linuxcnc to do a real THC was external offsets which was first released in 2018. I was using an experimental branch in conjunction with the lead developer prior to that. There was lot of foundation work prior to Plasmac coming about and so many people had good ideas they wanted to solve in their workflow that have been implemented. Plasmac's competitors are not in the Mach space. Its knocking on the door of Hypertherm's Phoenix. Is Mach? Can Mach implement auto hole cutting mode? Can Mach sense the hole radius and configure variations the velocity and tool path in real time? Does Mach support velocity antidive in real time? With Mach, can you write a few lines of code and install a new feature that is treated as if its part of the core system and react in real time. With Mach, can you read the velocity and acceleration in real time? Can you segment a downdraft table into zones and trigger vents based on the position on the table? Can Mach cut corrugated roofing iron without changing THC parameters before you start? Linuxcnc can. Is there hardware for Mach that can generate steps at 10 Mhz to use better motor controllers at their best? By real time, I'm talking about firing 1000 times a second so there is no lag.

Its these features that put Linuxcnc so far above what Mach can achieve.

Sure you can continue to to look at the hardware you bought to run Linuxcnc like you look at your Range Rover but a bit of effort will let you get them both out of the garage...

[robertspark]

If Linuxcnc wasn't superior to Mach...

but I wasn't comparing it to mach3 or even mach4....

[xnaron]

The HORRORS of my first try at cutting 6061 3/8" aluminum.

I am using the shielded 45 amp consumables and using the book values for cutting 3/8" aluminum from the 45xp manual on my powermax 65.

700ms pierce
0.15 pierce height
0.060 cut height
36ipm
THC set to 141V

Is this what I should expect for cutting aluminum? Oh and boy does aluminum ever like to get stuck on the shield and often bridge to the nozzle messing up the ohmic probe.

[xnaron]

My pierce delays are not correctly being output in my post processor. I changed mach 3 to expect the pierce delay in ms however the post processor was still outputting it in seconds. Easy fix. I will have to try it again. I am not sure if the pierce delay would cause the whole cut outline to be bad would it?

Annotation 2020-07-20 160254.png (18.4 KiB) Viewed 4740 times

Annotation 2020-07-20 160254.png (18.4 KiB) Viewed 4740 times

[xnaron]

Guess it wasn't as easy as I thought...not sure why but the changes

Annotation 2020-07-20 161101.png (28.96 KiB) Viewed 4740 times

Annotation 2020-07-20 161101.png (28.96 KiB) Viewed 4740 times

Give me this

Annotation 2020-07-20 161201.png (11.05 KiB) Viewed 4740 times

Annotation 2020-07-20 161201.png (11.05 KiB) Viewed 4740 times

When I have the pierce delay set to 700





Weird.

[robertspark]

some motion controllers only work in seconds and some in msec..... it's a firmware thing....

[xnaron]

Annotation 2020-07-20 162421.png (20.37 KiB) Viewed 4740 times

Annotation 2020-07-20 162421.png (20.37 KiB) Viewed 4740 times

The post processor wasn't outputting G04 P700 for a 0.7 s dwell. It was outputting G04 P1. Anyhow the above fix works in the post processor. Now as you mention I should verify it works in the controller.


Getting back on track to the cut quality. Is that what I should expect cutting 6061 at 45 amps with the pmax 65?

[xnaron]

I tried some 3/16" aluminum at the 45xp book settings. The dross cleans up pretty easy but the edge finish is rough. Maybe this is what is to be expected with aluminum? Interesting that the 3/16" piece cut with a bit of a bowtie where the center dimension is about 1mm smaller than the outsides on the cut plane.

[djreiswig]

The bowtie could be due to the material flexing from the heat. I run into that with steel flat bar sometimes.
Can't help you with the aluminum finish, I've only cut it a couple of times, and I think mine was pretty rough also.