Can I afford a beveling cutting head? 5 axis?

[weldersandblaster]

Save to your computer and import the photo to Inkscape. Then use Inkscape to digitally trace your part to create a dxf file for your part.

Alternatively you can import the picture into fusion 360 as a canvas, scale it and do a manual trace.
This can also work with 3d design's as long as you have a 3 view but that's pretty advanced.

I have tried tracing with Fusion 360 in the past. I don't think it has the flexibility of Inkscape. It works, but no node editing so editing curved lines I have found to be problematic. Perhaps you have some techniques you could share here to enlighten me.
Thanks,
David

In Vinyl Master Cut, it took me 20 minutes to study their video and learn how. Then it took me 3 minutes to do the JPG trace and determine what level of detail I want recorded. I think it had 10 level options. They called it colors. After fiddling with it for 3 minutes, I determined I wanted level one, just simple black and white(2 colors), and no shades of gray.

Level 1, black and white only, gave me a perfect silhouette, a 2D vector. Once it was traced, It had nodes and was adjustable with vector format.

Oh, my jpg was black and white to start with since I was only after the silouhette affect. Thats why I asked if you could convert them into black and white since it simplified things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P88qnvfWhbA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnKw5u-GDiY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=478Fno55c0c

With a little bit of studying, I might be able to do all my drawing in VinylMaster.

Now that I have looked up the links for you, and refreshed myself, I'm now going to download your drawings and see how fast I can turn it into a vector. I'll let you know shortly if I'm successful.
Chris

[weldersandblaster]

4 inch disc with 4 shark teeth.dxf
4 inch disc with 4 shark teeth.dxf image.jpg

Do you have a simple black and white version? With no words on it?

[weldersandblaster]

I opened 4 inch disc with 4 shark teeth.dxf in vinylmaster to see what would happen. The points disappeared. This is what I got.
Can I try it in a JPG? Or maybe just black and white?

[weldersandblaster]

OMG, the points did not disappear. I looked at it with inverted eyes.

[weldersandblaster]

So yes. Vinyl master can open dfx files, so I can convert them to vector .svg , add nodes, alter them, and reconvert them back to .dfx.

Or I can just hand draw it, take a picture, trace it, vectorize it, repair and adjust it, and export it as CAD .dfx.

Probably with a hour or two of study and a little practice, I can probably draw what I want, in Vinyl master.

Cutting vinyl is 100% the same result as plasma cutting steel. 2D draw and cut with precise measurements and locations, and both have nesting.

So once I have a .svg or .dfx, I then have to choose the CAM software to create lead in and out, and tool paths, then convert it to G Code to Firecontrol? Am I missing anything?

My excitement is growing, David. I'm seeing obstacles dissolving.

[adbuch]

vm manual trace.jpg

[Plasma-art]

I have tried tracing with Fusion 360 in the past. I don't think it has the flexibility of Inkscape. It works, but no node editing so editing curved lines I have found to be problematic. Perhaps you have some techniques you could share here to enlighten me.
Thanks,
David

here you have a quick tutorial on how i go from a drawing/photo to a part.
i did not take the time to do exact scaling but thats not to big of a deal.
also might have the inches/mm mixed up a little bit as i primarily work in metric.

step 1 import the canvas into fusion and put it on one of the planes, i chose the top plane.
When it asks for the file click choose from computer and find the file you want to use.
if you dont need to do any aligning just hit ok on the window that pops up

1.png

2.png

Next up its time to scale the canvas, look for the canvas in the browser, right click it and hit calibrate.
choose the 2 points you want to calibrate the canvas on and type in the associated dimentions.
the more accurate you work on this step the better the end result is.

3.png

4.png

i started out with the straight line and after that i used the fit point spline and that gives you the familiar handles and nodes you can drag around and match the lines on the canvas as best as possible.

5.png

did the same thing with the bottom arc, extruded 10 mm (sorry again, i'm metric ) and gave it a quick 45 degree angle.
could have used the secondary line on a new plane and used loft but thats more advanced then i wanted to go.

6.png

here you can see how close i came with the dimension, this can be adjusted with better calibration but i did this in only a couple of minutes

7.png

added a .step, .stl and a quick DXF that i didn't clean up into a zip file.

[adbuch]

Hi David.
I may use inkscape just for its tracing features. I cant compare it to anything else, but I have traced using Vinyl Master Pro for my cnc vinyl cutter. Once I learned how, which I would need brushing up on because its been a while, it took me only 3 minutes to trace and convert a JPG into a vector for cutting. From that vector, I believe it's as simple as save as, to get a DFX. Can a DFX go straight into FireControl? Or must I have some other CAM between them?

Chris - I really like Inkscape for manual tracing. Design Edge I use as well with great success, but since you most likely won't be buying Design Edge, I will spare you the details. I like VinylMaster Cut for auto tracing pdf files, and that is the main reason I bought it. I just tried it for manual tracing and would really need to study up on it for a good evaluation, but I think I will stick with Inkscape.

No - a vector file can't go straight to FireControl. The vector file (dxf or svg) will need to be post processed to produce the g-code for the FireControl controller. Sheetcam will do this, as well as Fusion 360. So CAD (computer aided design), CAM (computer aided manufacturing), and post process.

David

[adbuch]

I have tried tracing with Fusion 360 in the past. I don't think it has the flexibility of Inkscape. It works, but no node editing so editing curved lines I have found to be problematic. Perhaps you have some techniques you could share here to enlighten me.
Thanks,
David

here you have a quick tutorial on how i go from a drawing/photo to a part.
i did not take the time to do exact scaling but thats not to big of a deal.
also might have the inches/mm mixed up a little bit as i primarily work in metric.

Thanks for that demonstration. I will study it over. I wasn't aware of the node and node handle editing feature in Fusion 360.
David

[adbuch]

I have spent 10 hours today studying the software options. I was excited about F360, but after learning I can't save the files on my hard drive, meaning I don't own them, and their eco system of proprietary file formats, strongly restricting import and especially export, I am highly bothered with them. They suck me in, and get me chained to them, and then they quit the free version? And (i mght be wrong)
i can't run Crossfire unless F360 has a internet connection. Because it's not on my hard drive.

Is it as bad as I am fearing? Or am I over playing things in my mind?

Chris - In Fusion 360 you can save your drawings to your hard drive in dxf format. You can save your solid models to your hard drive in stl format. The post processed g-code files can be saved to your hard drive as .nc or text files. Your complete Fusion 360 file will be saved to the Fusion 360 servers (cloud) which you can retrieve at any time by opening with Fusion 360. I wouldn't worry about Fusion 360 hobbyist version or educational versions going away any time soon. There are many reasons for this that I won't go into right now.

You do not need an internet connection to run you Crossfire. Once you have created your g-code files, you can put then on a thumb drive and transfer them to the control pc (personal computer) you are using for your plasma table. Most folks probably have several computers - one for design and another dedicated to running their cutting tables.

In my case, I have several computers in my office that are connected to the internet and I use for design. I create files using MasterCam for my cnc machining centers, Design Edge for my cnc plasma cutter, Fusion 360 solid models for 3D printing, Vectric Aspire for cnc wood routing, and so on. All of these programs - with the exception of Fusion 360 - I also have installed on the control computers out in the machine shop. Once I get my internet wired out to the machine shop, I am planning on installing Fusion 360 on one of those computers as well. I will just need to make sure I log off Fusion 360 in the office before I log onto Fusion 360 in the machine shop - since I only have one account. I suppose I could run one of the instances of Fusion 360 in offline mode and then be able to use both at the same time.

I think you are "overplaying" things in your mind.

David

[adbuch]

I'm looking at SheetCam but am having a hard time finding any good tutorials on them. Do you know of any?

Thank you for converting those drawings for me. I will get around to downloading them to my HD soon.

You've got me thinking of Corel Draw, and owning it for vector drawings. Maybe a little slower, a little more cumbersome, but I'm not locked into subscription, or stuck depending on the cloud (my shop does not have internet), or dependent upon proprietary formats.

You yourself have said you still use Auto Cad 14 and love it for many things. You have me strongly thinking Corel and SheetCam.
I think I will also explore VinylMaster further. I only learned enough to make signs for my heavy equipment because I didn't want to be dependent upon the local sign shop contractors and them controlling my schedule.
You have said you use VinylMaster. Could we... Sometimes I get dangerous when I begin speculating. But I have occasionally ended up with some spectacular results that once began with speculating. Sometimes it was nothing but trouble.

Even SheetCams own website has no tutorials or study videos. And YouTube is skinny on them, unless I'm missing something. I may print their manual. What learning material are you aware of for SheetCam? How well do you know VinylMaster?

I don't use Sheetcam - although I have it loaded onto my computer and have played around with it some. I don't know of any good Sheetcam tutorials, but there is a Sheetcam section on this forum where you could ask questions. The Sheetcam forum is also a good place to ask questions. Les Newall was very helpful to me back when I was trying to get my Scanything auto tracer up and running. So I have posted some on that forum - a few years ago.

Many here use CorelDraw for their cad work, and I suspect that most of them are using Sheetcam for cam. I am pretty much an advanced beginner at using CorelDraw. I bought it because I had seen some manual tracing demonstrations and thought it looked like a pretty good tool to have around. I don't use it much - but Justin has posted some CorelDraw tips in the CorelDraw section of this forum.

https://www.plasmaspider.com/viewforum.php?f=225

I use AutoCad release 14 which runs on my Windows 2000 computer. I also have it installed on my Windows XP control computer out in the machine shop. I started using AutoCad 14 back in the late 90's. I have used if for architectural drawings, mechanical drawings, as well as creating dxf files for parts I then import to MasterCam to generate solid models used to generate too paths for my cnc turning center (lathe) and cnc machining centers (mills).

My best advise to you is to stick with Fusion 360 for now. It is free, easy to learn and use, and for your immediate purposes is I believe the quickest and easiest path to achieve your end goal of producing your shark teeth.

David

[adbuch]

I opened 4 inch disc with 4 shark teeth.dxf in vinylmaster to see what would happen. The points disappeared. This is what I got.
Can I try it in a JPG? Or maybe just black and white?

4 sharks teeth converted..svg VinlyMaster.jpg

4 sharks teeth converted..svg LightBurn.jpg

4 sharks teeth converted..svg Inkscape.jpg

[adbuch]

So once I have a .svg or .dfx, I then have to choose the CAM software to create lead in and out, and tool paths, then convert it to G Code to Firecontrol? Am I missing anything?

Chris - you are correct. cad, then cam, then post process to g-code. You can import your vector files (dxf or svg) produced with Vinylmaster to Fusion 360, or Sheetcam. Your choice.
David

[weldersandblaster]

My best advise to you is to stick with Fusion 360 for now. It is free, easy to learn and use, and for your immediate purposes is I believe the quickest and easiest path to achieve your end goal of producing your shark teeth.

David

After much consideration and research, I have decided to follow your advice and use F360. The others on the internet left me sitting on the fence, but you have pushed me over and helped me decide. Thank you for all the reasoning you took the time to explain to me, what reasons supported your recommendation.

As you know, I'm buying the Crossfire with extended bed, 25"x33", just for the purpose of cutting out experimental sharks teeth, to test the market and discern how many potential buyers there may be.

Since I have your drawings of them in a circle in dfx, it should be easy to adjust their size if/when needed.

Thanks to your drawing help, I fully believe I have my bevel dilemma solved in a fast and inexpensive way.

After I get started with cnc plasma, there is no telling where I will go from there. So it's too early to develop expansion plans and learn 6 different versions of software. I didn't know your drawings were in dxf, or VinylMaster could open dxf. I did know VinylMaster could trace a jpg and give me a vector drawing. So I thought at a minimum I could trace your drawing and be able to use it from there. I was delighted you sent it to me in a dxf, and Vinylmaster could just plain import it and use it with nodes.

So those portions of my business plan are solved thanks to you. Then next area I am highly currious about is, using the table to label parts with. I have no idea of what type of scribe is available, or how to mount magic markers.

I did find this company and I love that ability, but they don't advertise a size for my PrimeWeld 60. https://www.theeasyscriber.com/products.html I haven't had time to delve in deep yet on researching those marking abilities for my plasma machine.

Do you have any thoughts on my Primeweld or the Crossfire table being able to help label parts, so I can cut larger nested groups for storing in reserve, and yet being able to discern the different sizes or radii's later when looking at them? I expect the differences in size to be so small I probably can't identify them by eye.

I have quickly learned from you, to never underestimate your opinions. It is just founded on too, tooooooo much experience.

You would be pleased if you knew how much of what you shared with me, has been recorded into my notes. I can promise you, you have not wasted your time with me. It did not go in one ear and out the other.

Now I am studying https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSRKJgT ... u1tWdRuKkr because of you. I feel comforted knowing that if I run into a snag I can't solve, I have you to fall back on. I feel so blessed in having met you.

I remember my 5th grade teacher. He altered my life's direction in teaching me chess and electricity. I grew up loving both.

Now in 5 years from now when my business is worth millions and I have 50 employees, you will always be remembered.

A week ago, getting into cnc plasma was looking pretty daunting to me. Now, today, it looks like a fun, exciting adventure. You touch people's lives, you sometimes make a huge difference in the outcomes that will later turn out to be their new future.

A 1 degree change in direction today, can make an enormous difference in the outcomes in 10 years later. Our world is a better place because of people like you.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

Most genuinely sincere, Chris

[adbuch]

Chris - You are quite welcome! We are always happy to try to help. As far as marking your parts with ID numbers - one way that comes to mind is to print/cut some small labels from adhesive backed vinyl using your vinyl cutter. My Cricut can do this, and I assume you vinyl cutter can as well.

I suppose you could build a custom attachment for your Cut 60 torch with a spring loaded diamond tipped rod. This would be pretty small and would install in place of your electrode/nozzle assembly. Similar to the EasyScriber. It would be easy enough to draw something up based on the dimensions of those two parts (which I do not know). If you post some photos with dimensions we could take a look.

Another method would be to use a separate spring loaded diamond scribe like the one Tom shows here.

https://plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php? ... be#p201258

DSCN4465.JPG

If you have a 3D printer I believe Tom will provide the stl files for these parts. I think he also sells them at a nominal cost ready to go.

[adbuch]

An air scribe (pneumatic marker) would be another option. One of the most popular is the CP unit sold on Ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/170939216241?h ... R4rL2ICDYQ

s-l1600.jpg

It isn't too difficult to build a spring loaded mount for one of these. I build one a few years back and it works pretty well. Here is a photo of the results from a fellow member using a similar setup.

scribe pencil.jpg

[adbuch]

Chris- those tutorial videos from Arnold Rowntree are great, although they are geared more towards creating 3D solid models for things like 3D printing. For cnc plamsa cutting, I feel you would be best served by starting off studying the Langmuir Fusion 360 tutorial videos. These are specific to plasma cutting and explain how to install the FireControl post processor you will need with your new table.

David

https://www.langmuirsystems.com/software/fusion

Langmuir F360.jpg

[adbuch]

here you have a quick tutorial on how i go from a drawing/photo to a part.
i did not take the time to do exact scaling but thats not to big of a deal.
also might have the inches/mm mixed up a little bit as i primarily work in metric.

Thanks for that tutorial. I had better luck after studying your explanation.
David

success.jpg

[adbuch]

On something like this truck trace, I like Inkscape better because I can use the Draw Bezier Curves and Straight Lines Tool to quickly draw around the entire image. Then use node editing and click on the middle of any straight line segment and pull out to match curve in image. Then fine tune with the node handles. Fusion 360 won't do this (that I know of). In Fusion 360, I would need to draw all my straight lines first,then come back and use the splines tool to fill in the gaps and then use the node handles to shape to fit the image. Perhaps I am missing something in Fusion360. Please show me if there is a quicker method to accomplish the same thing.
Thanks,
David

Fusion 360

truck 1.jpg

Inkscape

truck 2.jpg

truck 3.jpg

Can very quickly click on the middle of any line segment and pull it out to match the curve of the image. Then fine tune with node handles.
I only did the first one here.

truck 4.jpg

Was very quick to go around the drawing and do the rest of them.

truck 5.jpg

[weldersandblaster]

Chris- those tutorial videos from Arnold Rowntree are great, although they are geared more towards creating 3D solid models for things like 3D printing. For cnc plamsa cutting, I feel you would be best served by starting off studying the Langmuir Fusion 360 tutorial videos. These are specific to plasma cutting and explain how to install the FireControl post processor you will need with your new table.

David

https://www.langmuirsystems.com/software/fusion

Langmuir F360.jpg

I had not found that page yet until you just gave me the URL link. That is so cool. It's all 2d which is exactly where I need to start. You are the greatest David.

[weldersandblaster]

here you have a quick tutorial on how i go from a drawing/photo to a part.
i did not take the time to do exact scaling but thats not to big of a deal.
also might have the inches/mm mixed up a little bit as i primarily work in metric.

Thank you Plasma-Art

I will be trying that in the future once I get my feet off the ground with Fusion 360. And I will remember it came from you. And when I have questions, I will remember where to turn.
Chris

[adbuch]

Chris- those tutorial videos from Arnold Rowntree are great, although they are geared more towards creating 3D solid models for things like 3D printing. For cnc plamsa cutting, I feel you would be best served by starting off studying the Langmuir Fusion 360 tutorial videos. These are specific to plasma cutting and explain how to install the FireControl post processor you will need with your new table.

David

https://www.langmuirsystems.com/software/fusion

Langmuir F360.jpg

I had not found that page yet until you just gave me the URL link. That is so cool. It's all 2d which is exactly where I need to start. You are the greatest David.

Happy to help Chris! Let us know if you have questions or comments once you have studied the videos.
David

[weldersandblaster]

I'm about 6 hours deep into studying them, and I'm also studying Arnold Rowntree's videos at the same time. I'm doing both courses equally. I'm really impressed how much I have learned. The first two hours I was uncomfortable and frequently stuck, but now I am beginning to learn my way around, and I am feeling very comfortable.

I should be able to put in 4 hours a day. I'll let you know how many weeks it takes me until I can redesign the shark's tooth from scratch.
Initially, I was annoyed I had to set up a team just for me to use it. But after it was set up, I thought about inviting you to join the team, and you could see the fire blazing from the spark you lit.

Thanks again.
Chris

[adbuch]

Hi Chris,
The Langmuir videos are really short, I think most are several minutes long. I think I recall going thru those in an evening. Arnold's videos are a bit longer, and he has drawings to print out for each lesson so it makes it easy to follow along. If you haven't already done so, I would highly recommend that you print them out. I think I did about 3 or 4 of his videos an evening. But after each video, I would attempt to create the assigned drawing/model on my own. Then go back and watch the same video again until I could do it on my own. Did the same for all of his tutorial videos.

After that, I found some other drawings/models online that I could print out and work on. These were generally more complicated than Arnold's tutorial examples. I think I did about 20 of the additional drawings for practice. I will see if I can find them and post them here.

Good luck!
David

[adbuch]

Chris - screenshots below. Here is the link to my Google Drive with the actual files. These are jpeg images you can print out to practice with.
These are not necessarily going to help you with the 2D drawings for plasma cutting, but if you intend to become proficient at creating solid models for prototyping, 3D printing, etc. then these will most certainly be good practice and you may find some of them challenging as well.

David

Google link
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DfJfYyHozNJWnmG27

Fusion examples 1.jpg

Fusion examples 2.jpg

Fusion examples 3.jpg

Fusion examples 4.jpg

Fusion examples 5.jpg

Fusion examples 6.jpg

Fusion examples 7.jpg

Fusion examples 8.jpg