The new SmartSYNC plasma cutting system

[Joe Jones]

hey Joe,
thanks for your input, I wanted to mention that the end of life feature within the cartridge and the sync system monitors the hafneium and will shut down the torch before it reaches critical to where it can do damage to the torch. this system does NOT just count cuts or time or pierces. If you would like to be a part of the discussion between members of this forum and our enginees and staff I'd be happy to send you an invite.

If it didn't cost so much to get into one of those machines, I'd probably buy one and put it through the paces to see how it performs.

I have a box full of electrodes, nozzles, shields, etc. I have never felt that it was an imposition to stay on top of them.

I have also done personal visits to people, to train them on DesignEdge software. I have seen people cutting metal art out of 14 gauge steel with 1/4" of the electrode MISSING! How the ... ?!?

Understand that I am NOT dissing the new system. You have put a lot of thought into it, and it is a convenient way to keep a plasma torch cutting. For industrial use, the convenience is great! Large companies don't worry about eeking out every possible cut inch and pierce out of their consumables. They would probably just add the cost of (n) cartridges to every job as an operating cost.

For the home hobby metal artist, it SEEMS to be an unnecessary expense though. I am not seeing the advantage for the guy who wants to make a dozen wall clocks in his garage over the weekend.

Now, if you came up with some way to cut through metal at the level of a laser, with an extremely thin kerf, I'd be VERY interested in what you have to offer. but with this system, I am not seeing an appreciable difference in the kerf width, or the cut speed, or even the "keyhole" that appears at the pierce point of every open path, which is an issue we would ALL love to solve.

I'd love the opportunity to try it though. Not just for a few minutes, but for a month or two, just to see if it really makes sense for the home hobby CNC plasma table owner. Right now, my 45XP is doing a stellar job, and I have a boat load of consumables awaiting their turn at the machine.

Joe


.

[HypHyDef]

hey Joe,
thanks for your input, I wanted to mention that the end of life feature within the cartridge and the sync system monitors the hafneium and will shut down the torch before it reaches critical to where it can do damage to the torch. this system does NOT just count cuts or time or pierces. If you would like to be a part of the discussion between members of this forum and our enginees and staff I'd be happy to send you an invite.

If it didn't cost so much to get into one of those machines, I'd probably buy one and put it through the paces to see how it performs.

I have a box full of electrodes, nozzles, shields, etc. I have never felt that it was an imposition to stay on top of them.

I have also done personal visits to people, to train them on DesignEdge software. I have seen people cutting metal art out of 14 gauge steel with 1/4" of the electrode MISSING! How the ... ?!?

Understand that I am NOT dissing the new system. You have put a lot of thought into it, and it is a convenient way to keep a plasma torch cutting. For industrial use, the convenience is great! Large companies don't worry about eeking out every possible cut inch and pierce out of their consumables. They would probably just add the cost of (n) cartridges to every job as an operating cost.

For the home hobby metal artist, it SEEMS to be an unnecessary expense though. I am not seeing the advantage for the guy who wants to make a dozen wall clocks in his garage over the weekend.

Now, if you came up with some way to cut through metal at the level of a laser, with an extremely thin kerf, I'd be VERY interested in what you have to offer. but with this system, I am not seeing an appreciable difference in the kerf width, or the cut speed, or even the "keyhole" that appears at the pierce point of every open path, which is an issue we would ALL love to solve.

I'd love the opportunity to try it though. Not just for a few minutes, but for a month or two, just to see if it really makes sense for the home hobby CNC plasma table owner. Right now, my 45XP is doing a stellar job, and I have a boat load of consumables awaiting their turn at the machine.

Joe


.

I appreciate you clarifying. I do want to try and give some context and a little more information regarding your first post if you don't mind. The system, not the cartridge, decides end-of-life. It does this to prevent a catastrophic failure. Addressing your concern about the user determining the time to change out consumables, the cartridge does not change this situation. Customers will continue to use cut results as a primary way of determining the need for a changeout. Many of our field trials customers would not allow a cartridge to run to end of life because their cutting results drove their change-out actions.

[Joe Jones]

Many of our field trials customers would not allow a cartridge to run to end of life because their cutting results drove their change-out actions.

If this is true, then we are left with the question; What is the real advantage to the SmartSYNC system?

I watched your videos. Yes, on the torch you can adjust the amperage, but that is not an advantage to those who use your machines on CNC plasma tables, presumably with a machine torch. We pretty much know what amperage to use at the start of the project. I can see where torch handle control of a MIG welder to control amperage and wire feed speed would be extremely beneficial.

The quick change of the consumables with the AUTOMATIC changes to the plasma cutter are nice, but CNC table owners do not generally switch from a cutting tip, to a fine cutting tip, to a gouging tip during the cutting process on a sheet of metal.

As you stated earlier, this system has clear advantages for the HANDHELD plasma cutters out there. I suppose a guy in a junkyard, who has to cut up some 1/4" angle, and some 3/4" wall tubing, and some sheet metal would really appreciate this system. He could reach into his belt "holster" and pull out the correct consumables for the cut he is about to make, snap it onto the tip of the torch, and the machine would automatically make the necessary adjustments for the best cut. That WOULD be nice! Your SmartSYNC machines would have really SHINED at the 911 disaster, as they had to cut through every imaginable size of steel to get to the victims and untangle that mess.

I am not convinced that there is an advantage for CNC table operators though. At least not enough of an advantage, to convince me to sell my 45XP. That is a lot of money to spend on a new SmartSYNC plasma cutting machine and machine torch, mainly to avoid a couple of minutes of time swapping out traditional consumables ... or choosing the correct combination of consumables ... a problem that is solved by experience, or a simple chart on a wall.

Joe


.

[HypHyDef]

Hello everyone, For those of you who have shown interest and agreed to attend the Hypertherm Customer Listening event tomorrow I just wanted to thank you once again and look forward to hearing from you. Please remember that it's scheduled to start at 10:00am Eastern Standard Time. Anyone who stumbles across this who has not reached out to me but would like to join us it's not too late. private message me and i'll send you an invite.

[adbuch]

Hello everyone, For those of you who have shown interest and agreed to attend the Hypertherm Customer Listening event tomorrow I just wanted to thank you once again and look forward to hearing from you. Please remember that it's scheduled to start at 10:00am Eastern Standard Time. Anyone who stumbles across this who has not reached out to me but would like to join us it's not too late. private message me and i'll send you an invite.

I will look forward to hearing what results (if any) are achieved with your meeting.
David

[Joe Jones]

Okay ... Please tell this old guy with no memory exactly HOW to join this meeting. I searched my emails and these posts. I know it is taking place, but that is ALL I know about it.

Joe



.

[Joe Jones]

Lots of hype about this meeting. NO INFO on how to join it.


Joe



.

[djreiswig]

private message me and i'll send you an invite.

[HypHyDef]

please check your emails for the invite from me Randall Woodward. Joe, I have PM'd you a couple times this morning as well as sent you the invite again through email. check your junk or spam filter just in case it went there as well. Thanks

[Joe Jones]

The meeting was good. I am not convinced to plunk down the cash to move away from the 45XP though. My next large financial move will be to a LASER table now.

Plasma will always have a place in the industry, to make construction saddles, and metal art, etc. but just like pocket calculators that were once $185.00 ... and are now given away at Tech Shows, laser tables are coming down in price rather quickly. I paid $180.00 for our first dual-cassette PHONE MATE telephone answering machine in 1975. Remember when a car with an automatic transmission and whitewall tires was a status symbol?

Initially, 3D printers were only a rich man's dream. now they sell home hobby versions of them at Wal-Mart! Show me an AFFORDABLE 3D printer that will make GUN PARTS and TAKE MY MONEY!

HyperTherm should not be looking at improving plasma. They should be looking at a line of after-market add-on lasers that can REPLACE the plasma torches on existing CNC tables. Give me a nice AFFORDABLE 4,000 watt fiber laser that will easily mount to my PlasmaCam CNC table, and I will break the sound barrier to go and purchase one!

Joe



.

[robertspark]

The feeling is that the sync system will provide +30% on consumables life (~30% is reported in the hypertherm testing labs, although customers in use feedback is looking like it may be higher).

The components within the stack have allowed for optimizing of the components within that single sync cartridge that has allowed for increasing the lifecycle of the cartridge and also increasing the cut height which in turn moves the cartridge away from the material (so less chance of blow back or I guess a need for puddle jump).

This optimizing of the stack / cartridge has allowed for better edge finish (over the +30% life cycle improvement). The photos presented seemed noticeably better.

There is no change to the "natural bevel" {the edge bevel} despite the higher cut height.

The sync system will also provide data which would allow for inspecting of potential failed starts and also shorter than expected consumable times (the existing system doesn't offer that).

The sync system is also idiot proof and you don't need to find the consumables in the stack, and zero chance of a mix and match error.

Hypertherm don't have a plan (at present) for the sync to be provided to the 45 (or 30) so I guess they are going to test the market and longer term market response before carrying it forward to other products.

I guess it's the way things will go.... so accept it or die.

I don't think going with another product will make economic sense in the long run, but YMMV relative to perspective, as your consumables probably won't last as long. Also I've not seen another manufacturer with better operator or service documentation.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Hey Joe, check your PM's

[rdj357]

The meeting was very informative. My takeaways were that we can expect (but of course not promised) a 30%+ longer consumable stack life. Since consumable cost per pierce/cut inch is already so low, unless an operator is using a poorly performing CNC table, the cost difference between the systems is a very small percentage increase in cost. Other factors such as improved cut quality, potentially reduced secondary processing, faster/easier consumable changes, reduction or elimination of incorrect consumable installation, and eliminating the chase to find which consumable component is performing poorly make the SYNC cartridges a net improvement. I think time will tell if all these things are true and to what degree as each of us that choose to do so, personally use them.

I fully expect and desire Hypertherm to continue to improve their product line even if 'it ain't broken.' The old saying, "If you're standing still, you're going backwards" is true. Is everything exactly how I'd do it? No. I look forward to seeing how this product line continues to develop. As I said on the call, I'd love to have a way for my legacy PM85 system (4 months old) to be able to read/write the data of the cartridges with some sort of additional interface. No one here or at Hypertherm that I've seen have suggested moving away from the 45XP in favor of a SYNC system so that's not an issue.

So far my recommendation is to NOT use the FineCut SYNC Cartridge if you have a PlasmaCAM system. There are issues with the ohmic sensing that cause many, many errors. Other than a few sensing errors at the start, the 65A Mechanized SYNC is doing well (only 145 pierces and 3,900 cut inches in 1/4" material thus far). I expect the other mechanized shielded cartridges to perform similarly. Once the issues are resolved with our ohmic sensing, I I intend to

Thank you to Hypertherm for taking the time to talk to all of us. There is no magic wand that makes Hypertherm the right machine for everyone cutting with the plasma process and minds that are already made up aren't likely to be changed. There is likewise, no magic wand that makes the plasma process the right answer for everyone.

[Joe Jones]

I suppose that the production shop that produces 10,000 plasma cut widgets every single day might actually see a benefit from this system.

For the small welding shop, the home hobby metal art guy, the high school instructor in metal shop, the construction yard hand torch guy and so many others, it is just a different light bulb in the same room. NO ONE in these low-volume plasma cutting scenarios will see a benefit from a faster swap of consumables. A chart on the wall handles the What goes with what consumables question.

I will stay with my original focus, that of eventually replacing my plasma cutter with a laser. Give me a REAL laser for my PlasmaCam table. I just don't see any benefit to adding new features to VCRs at this point.

Joe


.

[HypHyDef]

The meeting was good. I am not convinced to plunk down the cash to move away from the 45XP though. My next large financial move will be to a LASER table now.

Plasma will always have a place in the industry, to make construction saddles, and metal art, etc. but just like pocket calculators that were once $185.00 ... and are now given away at Tech Shows, laser tables are coming down in price rather quickly. I paid $180.00 for our first dual-cassette PHONE MATE telephone answering machine in 1975. Remember when a car with an automatic transmission and whitewall tires was a status symbol?

Initially, 3D printers were only a rich man's dream. now they sell home hobby versions of them at Wal-Mart! Show me an AFFORDABLE 3D printer that will make GUN PARTS and TAKE MY MONEY!

HyperTherm should not be looking at improving plasma. They should be looking at a line of after-market add-on lasers that can REPLACE the plasma torches on existing CNC tables. Give me a nice AFFORDABLE 4,000 watt fiber laser that will easily mount to my PlasmaCam CNC table, and I will break the sound barrier to go and purchase one!

Joe
.

Hey Joe, Thank you so much for attending the meeting today, I wish your mic had been working. I would have loved the opportunity for you to talk with everyone. I hope you were able to get the questions you asked answered. I beleve one of the guys on the call is going to reach out to you regarding the question you asked about the 30XP so look for that email soon.

[HypHyDef]

The feeling is that the sync system will provide +30% on consumables life (~30% is reported in the hypertherm testing labs, although customers in use feedback is looking like it may be higher).

The components within the stack have allowed for optimizing of the components within that single sync cartridge that has allowed for increasing the lifecycle of the cartridge and also increasing the cut height which in turn moves the cartridge away from the material (so less chance of blow back or I guess a need for puddle jump).

This optimizing of the stack / cartridge has allowed for better edge finish (over the +30% life cycle improvement). The photos presented seemed noticeably better.

There is no change to the "natural bevel" {the edge bevel} despite the higher cut height.

The sync system will also provide data which would allow for inspecting of potential failed starts and also shorter than expected consumable times (the existing system doesn't offer that).

The sync system is also idiot proof and you don't need to find the consumables in the stack, and zero chance of a mix and match error.

Hypertherm don't have a plan (at present) for the sync to be provided to the 45 (or 30) so I guess they are going to test the market and longer term market response before carrying it forward to other products.

I guess it's the way things will go.... so accept it or die.

I don't think going with another product will make economic sense in the long run, but YMMV relative to perspective, as your consumables probably won't last as long. Also I've not seen another manufacturer with better operator or service documentation.

Hi Robert, Thanks again for taking time out of your day to come join us on the call. I hope you felt that it was time well spent. it's hard to cover everything in a short time, since this was the first time Hypetherm has attempted anything like this i'm sure it could have been more efficient. Let me know if you have any other questions that you didn't get answered or have come up with since.

[HypHyDef]

The meeting was very informative. My takeaways were that we can expect (but of course not promised) a 30%+ longer consumable stack life. Since consumable cost per pierce/cut inch is already so low, unless an operator is using a poorly performing CNC table, the cost difference between the systems is a very small percentage increase in cost. Other factors such as improved cut quality, potentially reduced secondary processing, faster/easier consumable changes, reduction or elimination of incorrect consumable installation, and eliminating the chase to find which consumable component is performing poorly make the SYNC cartridges a net improvement. I think time will tell if all these things are true and to what degree as each of us that choose to do so, personally use them.

I fully expect and desire Hypertherm to continue to improve their product line even if 'it ain't broken.' The old saying, "If you're standing still, you're going backwards" is true. Is everything exactly how I'd do it? No. I look forward to seeing how this product line continues to develop. As I said on the call, I'd love to have a way for my legacy PM85 system (4 months old) to be able to read/write the data of the cartridges with some sort of additional interface. No one here or at Hypertherm that I've seen have suggested moving away from the 45XP in favor of a SYNC system so that's not an issue.

So far my recommendation is to NOT use the FineCut SYNC Cartridge if you have a PlasmaCAM system. There are issues with the ohmic sensing that cause many, many errors. Other than a few sensing errors at the start, the 65A Mechanized SYNC is doing well (only 145 pierces and 3,900 cut inches in 1/4" material thus far). I expect the other mechanized shielded cartridges to perform similarly. Once the issues are resolved with our ohmic sensing, I I intend to

Thank you to Hypertherm for taking the time to talk to all of us. There is no magic wand that makes Hypertherm the right machine for everyone cutting with the plasma process and minds that are already made up aren't likely to be changed. There is likewise, no magic wand that makes the plasma process the right answer for everyone.

Hey Robert, Great to see and to meet you today. I wanted to thank you again for taking the time out of your busy schedule to meet with us. I hope you came away with some new information that you didn't already know. Since this was out first go at this type of meeting i'm sure we have some places to improve. I hope you stay in close contact with us about your testing and we can work together to make the product better for everyone.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

OK Burners.

Hypertherm wants your opinions, don't be bashful and tell them what you think.. I Did

Edit:

Use link in weldguy's post below

[weldguy]

OK Burners.

Hypertherm wants your opinions, don't be bashful and tell them what you think.. I Did

https://www.b2beresearch.com/wix/0/p383 ... I7U_r12jQ2

If this link don't work hopefully it gets up dated by our Hypertherm rep...

Thanks SegoMan, I will participate. Your link is good except it contains your session id which needs to be eliminated so use this link folks

https://www.b2beresearch.com/wix/0/p383223981590.aspx

Should have no problems with that.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

[adbuch]

My latest information from Robert is that Hypertherm is working on a new improved fine sync cut cartridge which he (Robert) has been testing with good results. I believe he is using a standard machine with Duramax torch, along with the Duramax to sync adapter.
David

Quote from PlasmaCam / Samson 510 / DesignEDGE Users Group

"Robert JohnsonModerator
David I’ve been using the soon-to-be released updated FineCut cartridges and am very happy with the results so far. I’ve run 2 sheets through the cartridge thus far, about 300 pierces in 10 gauge, 1,200 inches cut and then 500 pierces in 14 gauge and 4,050 inches cut. So far only one ohmic errors and three 0-30 faults. I expect it’s getting close to end of life, cut quality remains as good or better than standard consumables.
That’s a cost of around $0.01/cut inch so far."

[rdj357]

I'm going out to cut some more 14 gauge with that same cartridge. Yes, I'm using the Duramax adapter on a Powermax85 that I bought new in December 2021.

I am looking forward to the predicted release of these beta cartridges next month! Fingers crossed!

[adbuch]

I'm going out to cut some more 14 gauge with that same cartridge. Yes, I'm using the Duramax adapter on a Powermax85 that I bought new in December 2021.

I am looking forward to the predicted release of these beta cartridges next month! Fingers crossed!

[HypHyDef]

I'm going out to cut some more 14 gauge with that same cartridge. Yes, I'm using the Duramax adapter on a Powermax85 that I bought new in December 2021.

I am looking forward to the predicted release of these beta cartridges next month! Fingers crossed!

Hey Robert,
Thanks for posting your results so far on the new FineCut cartridge.

[rdj357]

I'm going out to cut some more 14 gauge with that same cartridge. Yes, I'm using the Duramax adapter on a Powermax85 that I bought new in December 2021.

I am looking forward to the predicted release of these beta cartridges next month! Fingers crossed!

Hey Robert,
Thanks for posting your results so far on the new FineCut cartridge.

You're very welcome. For anyone interested in pictures, they can be found here: https://plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=34441