The new SmartSYNC plasma cutting system

[HypHyDef]

Hi everyone, since it kind of seems like we’re going around in circles, I’d like to propose that we meet via Teams or Zoom for a conference call to discuss your questions and concerns in a productive way. I can invite some of our Powermax SYNC experts including an engineer to answer your questions. I’m thinking maybe an hour to 90 minutes later this month. How does that sound? If you’re interested, send me a private message or you can send me an email at information@hypertherm.com with the subject line (SYNC discussion) with your email address, and preferred days / times. If it's easier for you to get in touch with me through this forum you can DM me and we can try and nail down the best dates and time you guys to meet with us. Due to time limits we will be limiting the attendance so this productive, I'm hoping to get 6-7 of you to join us. I can DM you as well personally asking if you are interested. Not everyone is as comfortable with online meetings so let me know if you have access and can use either Microsoft teams or even zoom. Lets get this going and have a productive group meeting. Thanks.

[34by151]

Hyphydef, simple questions, please give us a simple answer

Have you reffered any or all of the 3 options to the decision makers in hypertherm Yes or No?
If you have what was the resopnce?
If you havent why not?

Hey 34by151, I have brought all of this groups comments to our team and I hope that you will take part in what i'm about to post on the forum. Stay tuned.

Can you answer my question

Have you reffered any or all of the 3 options to the decision makers in hypertherm Yes or No?

1. Offer an adapter for the old consumables on the sync torch
2. Offer a duramax torch for the sync machine
3. Offer to trade in new consumables ( still in unopened boxes)

If you have what was the resopnce?
If you havent why not?

[adbuch]

My guess it that production decisions have already been made at Hypertherm, and complaints by a few here on the forum are not going to change anything. While I agree with your options 1 and 2 above, I just don't think it is going to happen.
David

[34by151]

While I agree with your options 1 and 2 above, I just don't think it is going to happen.

I suspect your right
But it would also be no bother and aid everyone transitioning to offer option 3
I do that all the time because it promotes more sales

My thermal dynamics arrives next week for testing.
While I will be sad to go there are so many unknowns in business I dont need this one.
I just need to get cutting on my new machine as I have jobs banked up for thicker material.
I cant now without getting me new table up and running and am relying on outsourcing the thicker job.
This has more issues im keen to end.

[adbuch]

While I agree with your options 1 and 2 above, I just don't think it is going to happen.

I suspect your right
But it would also be no bother and aid everyone transitioning to offer option 3
I do that all the time because it promotes more sales

My thermal dynamics arrives next week for testing.
While I will be sad to go there are so many unknowns in business I dont need this one.
I just need to get cutting on my new machine as I have jobs banked up for thicker material.
I cant now without getting me new table up and running and am relying on outsourcing the thicker job.
This has more issues im keen to end.

Which TD cutter are you getting? And which Hypertherm do you currently have? When you say "thicker job" how thick are you outsourcing?
David

[34by151]

I have a 2515 table with a 45XP.
The new table is a 3020
I was getting and 85
I cut 6-10mm all day for parts on products (mostly for tractors and earth moving)
Some parts are 12-20mm
The thickest I have needed is 32mm
While I can cut 12 now its slow, the 85 would speed that up a lot (time is money)
I tend to outsource 12mm and up but want to do that in house


Im testing the A80 and the Ultra-Cut130XT
The A80 is more or less the same as the 85
Not sure about the extra cost on the Ultra-cut but willing to test and see If the numbers stack up

[ultramaxracing]

I have been a long term hypertherm customer, for over 13 years, many machines, bought and sold.

I currently have a 45xp on my table because its the last of the good. Without having to buy this SYNC tech.

I do want to point out to Mr Hypertherm that when a nozzle has a blowback its not because inexperienced or bad setup, its sometimes caused on thinner materials when it flexes before setting off the touch sensing switch, i have both ohmic and touch, you cannot always use ohmic when dealing with water, so blowbacks will happen from time to time, you would only know this if you have ran a plasma machine for some time.

Also regarding the research, talking with businesses accross the world. Did you talk to small man shops? I can see the SYNC system working for large multi million dollar companies who dont care about costs, Yes thats who you talked to. Not us the little man.

I invite and hope other manufacturers are reading this thread closely and taking notes on how hyperthem is leaving their most loyal customers down by not giving us options. Please fellow members spread the word, I have read new plasma owners not liking the costs associated with the new sync systems.

This move will smear the sales of plasma table manufacturers, as new potential buyers will know this new tech is just like an HP printer.

This nothing more than a money grab from hypertherm, and I hate to say this because I have referred many customers over the years to Hypertherm. Me buying over 5 machines over the years.

I want to see real world data, I want to see one of these SYNC units be dissected and see HOW they are bettter, is the hefnium bigger? deeper? is the nozzle thicker? is the air being swirled at supersonic speeds? I have yet to see the reasons as to why mechanically this is better. I dont care that you get your Iphone out and scan the damn thing and share it on facebook or what ever the hell. I want to see the guts of it.

The working man or one man shops has no time to be playing with the phone scanning the cartridge, we just want to get to work.
My next machine will be a thermal dynamics, and I hope they fill the voids hyperthem is leaving.

A note I am seeing, is how convenient that you can retrofit a sync cartridge on to an old torch but not the other way around......how convenient.
This is all about the money folks dont be fooled, I want to see one case study where hypertherm interviewed a single man shop and got their opinions.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Hi everyone, since it kind of seems like we’re going around in circles

It's going around in circles as real data is not provided nor is forum members concerns / questions being answered.

[adbuch]

I have been a long term hypertherm customer, for over 13 years, many machines, bought and sold.

I currently have a 45xp on my table because its the last of the good. Without having to buy this SYNC tech.

I do want to point out to Mr Hypertherm that when a nozzle has a blowback its not because inexperienced or bad setup, its sometimes caused on thinner materials when it flexes before setting off the touch sensing switch, i have both ohmic and touch, you cannot always use ohmic when dealing with water, so blowbacks will happen from time to time, you would only know this if you have ran a plasma machine for some time.

Also regarding the research, talking with businesses accross the world. Did you talk to small man shops? I can see the SYNC system working for large multi million dollar companies who dont care about costs, Yes thats who you talked to. Not us the little man.

I invite and hope other manufacturers are reading this thread closely and taking notes on how hyperthem is leaving their most loyal customers down by not giving us options. Please fellow members spread the word, I have read new plasma owners not liking the costs associated with the new sync systems.

This move will smear the sales of plasma table manufacturers, as new potential buyers will know this new tech is just like an HP printer.

This nothing more than a money grab from hypertherm, and I hate to say this because I have referred many customers over the years to Hypertherm. Me buying over 5 machines over the years.

I want to see real world data, I want to see one of these SYNC units be dissected and see HOW they are bettter, is the hefnium bigger? deeper? is the nozzle thicker? is the air being swirled at supersonic speeds? I have yet to see the reasons as to why mechanically this is better. I dont care that you get your Iphone out and scan the damn thing and share it on facebook or what ever the hell. I want to see the guts of it.

The working man or one man shops has no time to be playing with the phone scanning the cartridge, we just want to get to work.
My next machine will be a thermal dynamics, and I hope they fill the voids hyperthem is leaving.

A note I am seeing, is how convenient that you can retrofit a sync cartridge on to an old torch but not the other way around......how convenient.
This is all about the money folks dont be fooled, I want to see one case study where hypertherm interviewed a single man shop and got their opinions.

[beefy]

I came across a Facebook group for CNC plasma and one guy started a thread about the Sync system. His last sentence was about him moving to Thermal Dynamics.

I'm sure Hypertherm is not so short sighted they could not see how the little guy is going to leave Hypertherm because of the greatly increased running costs. Maybe Hypertherm have accounted for this and expect it, but have calculated that the increased revenue from cartridge sales with all the larger industrial customers, will more than offset the loss of plasma unit sales from the little guys. After all, the yearly sale of cartridges for one customer may add up to more than the cost of a machine. If they get plenty of that then they don't need to worry about losing the little guys.

[djreiswig]

A note I am seeing, is how convenient that you can retrofit a sync cartridge on to an old torch but not the other way around......how convenient.

I want to see someone 3d print an adapter to connect the smaller Duramax torch connector to the Sync. From the service manual it looks like you can get it to run in some sort of manual mode. You wouldn't see any of the smart features, but you also wouldn't have to buy the fancy cartridges.

[34by151]

A note I am seeing, is how convenient that you can retrofit a sync cartridge on to an old torch but not the other way around......how convenient.

I want to see someone 3d print an adapter to connect the smaller Duramax torch connector to the Sync. From the service manual it looks like you can get it to run in some sort of manual mode. You wouldn't see any of the smart features, but you also wouldn't have to buy the fancy cartridges.

I think an adapter to the old consumables on a sync torch would be easier.
While I think the the database on the consumable use is a good thing a lot of us have this built into there machines.
In any case its not somthing that would be used in a daily basis.
As for setting the amps with the cartridge thats good too but not a big deal either.
Also you have to set it manually anyway for the 45A cartrige as the thin stuff needs 30A which is back to manual.

Its a bit like the my synergic welder, if you know how to weld you use the manual controls
If I bring in a extra welder I expect them to know how to weld.
If I brought in an operator for my cnc I'd expect him to know how to use it which includes checking consumables and setting the amps.

Just my 2 cents
Looks like it a TD for me goodbye HT

[djreiswig]

I see a few issues with trying to make an adapter for the consumables. There's a lot going on in the torch, and the Duramax torch has the bore that the electrode slides into. Then there is the heat exposure that you would have to contend with.
The connector on the power supply end is just sending power, air & signals. Another benefit is that they made the sync connector larger, so the adapter could fit nicely inside the socket. You wouldn't have to deal with heat at the power supply end.
If you could get the sync torch connector it would be even easier to adapt, but making a bushing type adapter would probably have a good market judging by the response to the sync.

[HypHyDef]

Hello All,

I have reached out to some of you about joining us for a discussion on the SYNC later this month. I wanted to give you an update so that you have plenty of time to either make arrangments or decide if this just won't work for you. Here is what we are thinking about for a schedule.

March 30 or Thursday, March 31

10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time (UTC -4 starting this Sunday when clocks here spring forward.) I believe the respective times would be:

8 a.m. in Colorado
9 a.m. in Oklahoma
3 p.m. in Germany
7 p.m. in Eastern Australia

let me know if this looks agreeable to you or if we need to try another time.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

I'm not a morning person, it could get ugly

[rdj357]

Either of those days should work fine for me.

I've completed recording the footage of my first trials with the FineCut cartridge on an adapter. I'll post the video in a new thread where I can post more content as it's completed and will post a link once here in this thread so it's easy to find. Hopefully I'll have the editing completed over the weekend.

[plasmanewbie]

I'm not a morning person, it could get ugly

[cutnweld]

Either of those days should work fine for me.

I've completed recording the footage of my first trials with the FineCut cartridge on an adapter. I'll post the video in a new thread where I can post more content as it's completed and will post a link once here in this thread so it's easy to find. Hopefully I'll have the editing completed over the weekend.

I am interested in your results, I have never had great luck with getting fine cuts to last. Maybe Ill need to run both systems, Duramax for regular and sync for fine cut:-)

[adbuch]

Either of those days should work fine for me.

I've completed recording the footage of my first trials with the FineCut cartridge on an adapter. I'll post the video in a new thread where I can post more content as it's completed and will post a link once here in this thread so it's easy to find. Hopefully I'll have the editing completed over the weekend.

[slj2486]

Hello All,

I have reached out to some of you about joining us for a discussion on the SYNC later this month. I wanted to give you an update so that you have plenty of time to either make arrangments or decide if this just won't work for you. Here is what we are thinking about for a schedule.

March 30 or Thursday, March 31

10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time (UTC -4 starting this Sunday when clocks here spring forward.) I believe the respective times would be:

8 a.m. in Colorado
9 a.m. in Oklahoma
3 p.m. in Germany
7 p.m. in Eastern Australia

let me know if this looks agreeable to you or if we need to try another time.

Been following along on this thread as I have one of the new SYNC 65 systems, and am still learning it as I go. I do have a little bit of experience with a PMX 45XP, but only hand cutting operations, so I don't feel its really applicable. I would be very interested in attending your discussion, but am not available on the 30th.

Thanks, staying tuned.
Scott

[34by151]

10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time (UTC -4 starting this Sunday when clocks here spring forward.) I believe the respective times would be:
8 a.m. in Colorado
9 a.m. in Oklahoma
3 p.m. in Germany
7 p.m. in Eastern Australia

I think your calcs are out
10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time (UTC -4)
Colorado, UTC -7 = 7am
Oklahoma UTC -6 = 8am
Germany UTC +1 = 3pm
Eastern Australia UTC +10 = Midnight

If I have the time zones right then it doesnt add up for me.

[rdj357]

10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time (UTC -4 starting this Sunday when clocks here spring forward.) I believe the respective times would be:
8 a.m. in Colorado
9 a.m. in Oklahoma
3 p.m. in Germany
7 p.m. in Eastern Australia

I think your calcs are out
10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time (UTC -4)
Colorado, UTC -7 = 7am
Oklahoma UTC -6 = 8am
Germany UTC +1 = 3pm
Eastern Australia UTC +10 = Midnight

If I have the time zones right then it doesnt add up for me.

I can't speak for the times in other countries but Oklahoma and Colorado both utilize DST so we will be UTC-5 at that point and maintain our normal 1 hour difference from Eastern. Colorado will be at UTC-6 and California will be UTC-7.

Anyway that's how it looks to me. If you're in Arizona that's your own tough luck to figure out since your state is off the rails.

[rdj357]

Either of those days should work fine for me.

I've completed recording the footage of my first trials with the FineCut cartridge on an adapter. I'll post the video in a new thread where I can post more content as it's completed and will post a link once here in this thread so it's easy to find. Hopefully I'll have the editing completed over the weekend.

I am interested in your results, I have never had great luck with getting fine cuts to last. Maybe Ill need to run both systems, Duramax for regular and sync for fine cut:-)

I get great results from FineCuts but they are VERY particular about consistently maintaining correct cut height. I won't spoil the whole first video but will say that if you're using ohmic sensing you may not be on board with the cartridge just yet.

[Joe Jones]

As someone who has used the 45, the 85, and now the 45XP, with a "shorty" machine torch and the myriad of consumables on my Samson 510 plasma table, I am a bit perplexed by this move to a cartridge system. It seems as if this is a solution in search of a problem.

I can SEE when my consumables are nearing the end of their life, simply by watching the torch cut through the material, and by inspecting the result. I can HEAR when the torch is not cutting right, and may require an adjustment to the cutting speed, or cut height, or cutting amperage. I can LOOK at the stack of metal I have cut with the consumables, and know whether or not the torch can cut another batch.

I am not at all excited about the spiffy microchip, or the phone APP that reads numbers from the chip. Call me paranoid, but in today's world of ZERO privacy, I just can't see a company developing such an APP without the capability to collect that DATA, perhaps quietly in the background, via the APP, for whatever reasons it may be deemed beneficial to the manufacturer.

My experience with color laser printers has shown me that the "smart chips" in the toner cartridges are more about selling toner cartridges than about getting the maximum yield out of a cartridge. By purchasing aftermarket chips and replacing the chips that come in the factory cartridges, I find that I can STILL print without issue for another few months using the "expired" cartridges.

Those chips DO NOT measure the amount of TONER that is used. They only count PAGES, and after a presumed 2,500 pages of "yield", the chip says "You need a new toner cartridge!" when in fact, there may be PLENTY of toner left in the cartridge. I purchase the toner refill kits and the replacement chips and save TONS of money over buying new cartridges for my color laser printers. I can SEE when the cyan, or the magenta, or the yellow, or the black toner is running thin by the appearance of the sheet it produces. Taking the cartridge out and rocking it side-to-side disburses the toner inside across the cartridge, and it prints fine again ... for a while.

This whole thing reminds me of the window sticker that tells me it is time to change my motor oil ... "Next change due at ##,### miles OR by ##/##/####." The sticker cannot possibly determine whether I have exhausted the protective qualities of the oil in the engine. It just make an assumption based on national average of driving habits. If I drove those miles towing a heavy trailer up and down mountain slopes, the life expectancy of the oil would most likely be quite a bit less than the 3,000 mile goal for a change, and I would probably change the oil sooner. If I only drive city streets to Dairy Queen once a day for an Oreo Blizzard (a 16 mile round trip at 30 MPH), then 3,000 miles of use has BARELY begun to exhaust the protective qualities of the oil in my engine. WHY should I spend the money to change the oil, just because a STICKER says I have reached the end of the oil's life?

I DO love my HyperTherm 45XP and I have a great deal of admiration for the company. However, given that it has been DECADES since I played music on my 8-Track player, or used a BIC pen to tighten a cassette tape reel, or even burn a CD or DVD with backup files ... I must assume that CNC plasma tables are ALSO on the down slope of the Bell Curve. Before I look at spending a lot of money to soup up my plasma table with the latest and the greatest, I am looking instead, at selling "everything plasma" in the future, and buying a laser table with the money. Lasers are coming down in price as expected. 3D printers are being sold at Wal-Mart! So honestly, I don't see CNC plasma tables being widely used at all, ten years from now.

Lastly, yes, it bothers me to have to buy an entire cartridge, when only the electrode may need to be replaced. I don't buy a new car when my brakes wear out.

Joe


.

[HypHyDef]

hey Joe,
thanks for your input, I wanted to mention that the end of life feature within the cartridge and the sync system monitors the hafneium and will shut down the torch before it reaches critical to where it can do damage to the torch. this system does NOT just count cuts or time or pierces. If you would like to be a part of the discussion between members of this forum and our enginees and staff I'd be happy to send you an invite.