The new SmartSYNC plasma cutting system

[34by151]

just curious, If the smart consumables are usable on the older units, then the old consumables should be usable with the smart cutter right? CNC lathe should be able to make an adapter?

It is a ONE WAY adapter to allow use of the newer cartridges on the older machines. I expect that on the Sync machines, the computer in the machine depends on communication with the cartridge to operate. So I would say NO, but perhaps the Hypertherm pro will step in here to verify.
David

The question is what happens when the sync loses comms to the cartridge. Does the power supply work (even if it generates an error)? If it prevents working the torch wont operate. I have no doubt an adapter for the old torch plug will work it just what the machine will do with out comms to the new cartrige. It may be a case of adding a connection to a sync cartrige (at the pllug) to fool it.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

I understand your feelings on this but I can't think of another manufacturer that has done that, it's just not feasible from a cost perspective as well as facilities standpoint.

Again I disagree you designed it and have patents on it. You can build as many of each model as you like, but instead your giving us a forced upgrade. (sounds like another hot topic on the internet)

[adbuch]

I understand your feelings on this but I can't think of another manufacturer that has done that, it's just not feasible from a cost perspective as well as facilities standpoint.

Again I disagree you designed it and have patents on it. You can build as many of each model as you like, but instead your giving us a forced upgrade. (sounds like another hot topic on the internet)

Hypertherm is not the only game in town. I hear Thermal Dynamics makes some top-notch stuff as well.
David

[SegoMan DeSigns]

I understand your feelings on this but I can't think of another manufacturer that has done that, it's just not feasible from a cost perspective as well as facilities standpoint.

Again I disagree you designed it and have patents on it. You can build as many of each model as you like, but instead your giving us a forced upgrade. (sounds like another hot topic on the internet)

Hypertherm is not the only game in town. I hear Thermal Dynamics makes some top-notch stuff as well.
David

I heard that as well.

Here is my rough cost break down on 65A consumables (I normally run 2 nozzles for every electrode)

6
6
8
--
20 / 2 = $10 per change avg Vs $53 for the SYNC setup So that is $43 savings per change out.

That adds up real quick and is a hefty price to pay because you can't download the Hypertherm consumable wear chart, read and understand it. (I already showed the forum how easy it was to organize/ label the in use & new consumables)

I ran into an Epson rep at a trade show, he informed me they basically sell their printers at a little above cost as they know they will make up for it in ink sales. Sounds like Hypertherm is adopting the same strategy..

[djreiswig]

Yeah, but where's the service manual? The operators manual doesn't have schematics.

The service manuals are listed on the website. you just have to click the button that says "show all"

https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/suppor ... max65+SYNC

service manual for SYNC.JPG

I clicked the button under service information, but all I see are 2 service bulletins. There is nothing that says service manual in any of the tabs. Could you please post a direct link to the file?
If I go the the non sync model, I see an option like you show. Google search also pulls up lots of service manuals for different models, but nothing for the sync.

[adbuch]

Operator manual only. No service manual. My guess it that Hypertherm is not anxious to share their new patented SYNC technology just yet.
David

[djreiswig]

Yeah, but Mr. HypHyDef said it's there. His screenshot even shows it. Must have to work for Hypertherm to see them listed.

[adbuch]

Yeah, but Mr. HypHyDef said it's there. His screenshot even shows it. Must have to work for Hypertherm to see them listed.

Perhaps he will chime in here and either point us in the right direction or actually post the pdf here so we can take a look.
David

[SegoMan DeSigns]

HypHyDef must have a bug and called in sick a few days...

[djreiswig]

Probably busy selling Sync systems. Or fielding complaint calls.

[beefy]

You absolutely are not forced into the new SYNC power supplies and cartridge consumables. We are not abandoning the Duramax torches or the consumables.

So if you are not abandoning the Duramax torches, why abandon the power supply that uses them? Or is it possible to adapt one to a Sync unit? It appears that the socket is the same from images I've seen. I'm sure some modifications might have to be made to the pins, though I haven't been able to locate a service manual for the sync to compare circuitry.

I believe the pins are a different size which would prevent the Duramax from connecting properly. I can raise this question to our technical support team for clarification if you would like me to. I'll share what I can. Producing the SYNC system required retooling of our assembly line, which would not make manufacturing both systems feasible. While on a smaller scale this would be like asking Chevy to produce their new Truck alongside the old in the same plant. Pardon the example I was struggling to come up with a good one, but I hope you get the point I was trying to make. We only have so much room for our production line.

I'm sure Hypertherm could have designed the sync system so the buyer could choose to fit EITHER the Duramax torch or the new Sync torch.

That would still only require the one production line.

This whole thing really stinks of expensive printer cartridge sales, and I'm wondering if many existing customers may become mistrustful of Hypertherm as a result. That sort of damage happens pretty quickly but can take a long time to repair.

[adbuch]

Keith - I think Hypertherm will be just fine. Many of the new buyers won't even know about the "old" machines. I very seriously doubt that there will be any "damage" to Hypertherm as a company or to its reputation for manufacturing top quality machines. As Robert stated earlier - the consumable cost is a fraction of the overall cost for producing parts using a cnc plasma table. So the "printer cartridge" analogy probably doesn't apply here. For a commercial manufacturer - there are so many other costs for materials, processing, powder coating, etc. that I will have to agree with Robert on this one.
David

[SegoMan DeSigns]

If you change your consumables twice per:

Month that's $86 x 12 = $1,032 / yr
Week $86 x 52 = $4,472 / yr
Day $86 x 5 x 52 = $22,360 / yr

The base price for both machines is approx the same, where is the cash cow your going to milk the additional consumable cost from? Add this to the sky rocketing price of steel and it spells disaster to small business and the hobbyist
Another business model Hypertherm has copied from the computer industry is planned obsolescence. The drop of the Duramax series is proof of that.

Wishing for a speedy recovery to HypHyDef

[djreiswig]

Anybody figure out how to 3d print an adapter for the Duramax torch yet? I don't have one, but I wouldn't think it would be too difficult.

[beefy]

Keith - I think Hypertherm will be just fine. Many of the new buyers won't even know about the "old" machines. I very seriously doubt that there will be any "damage" to Hypertherm as a company or to its reputation for manufacturing top quality machines. As Robert stated earlier - the consumable cost is a fraction of the overall cost for producing parts using a cnc plasma table. So the "printer cartridge" analogy probably doesn't apply here. For a commercial manufacturer - there are so many other costs for materials, processing, powder coating, etc. that I will have to agree with Robert on this one.
David

Hi David,

well this raises a question for me. What is the next best machine to Hypertherm. Is Thermal Dynamics or any other at least close to Hypertherm's cut quality and consumable life ?

I work in a multi-million dollar company but when it comes to parts costs, the manager and supervisors do not like to needlessly spend multiples if there is an alternative, especially when it comes to consumable items. In these days of tighter competition, lean manufacturing, blah, blah, it would seem to be incredibly wasteful. All costs add up to the monthly budget limit.
I agree in a large company the consumables cost may be a fraction of the overall cost of producing parts, but overall cost is a sum total of individual costs which should be individually monitored and controlled, and as SegoMan has shown with the consumables cost, would even large companies ignore this relatively huge increase in cost if there is a suitable alternative.

For a company using a lot of consumables, the money they could save could buy them a brand new machine in a relatively short space of time.

[adbuch]

Keith - I would look to Thermal Dynamics as second choice to Hypertherm. I would personally probably stick with Hypertherm for my cutting needs. Also - for the larger companies I think the cost savings as a result of increased productivity (less operator error, down time due to incorrect consumables, etc.) would more than offset any associated cost of using slightly more expensive consumables.
David

[HypHyDef]

HypHyDef must have a bug and called in sick a few days...

Wow! I understand that anything on social media and forums feel that they need answers in real time but unfortunately companies do not work that way. I appreciate your concern for my health . After looking through the trouble you guys were having accessing the service manual I decided to raise the concern to a higher level within the company. I have found out that permissions on the website for the service manual was not set correctly. Those manuals will be available for you to view shortly. I'm sorry that this didn't happen fast enough for some. Stay tuned, I'll try and be here more often to listen to the complaints.
As for those saying we are dropping the Duramax? where are you getting this from, We will continue to be building that torch for many many years to come, along with the consumables for those torches. In 7 years are you going to be on here still talking about Hypertherm getting rid of the Duramax torch. maybe I should look back and see if there was this much talk about when we discontinued the previous torch in favor of the Duramax? I'll say this again and continue to say it, there is no reason for anyone today or tomorrow or years from now to switch to the SYNC system if you are happy with your Gen4 system and Duramax torch. As a business, you obviously have to do what is best for company and if that day comes and you feel you can do better quality work with another system you need to make that choice. Certainly the size of your company plays a huge roll in that decision, Down time, stocking inventory, Operator error all play a part in your overal profitabilty just as adbuch mentions. Our new systems are just now getting into the hands of people who will be using them in real world conditions, they will certainly speak up about how they feel and what they think of the system. when that happens, find someone you trust who uses them and listen to what they have to say.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Randy,

I would not consider P Spider to be just another social media site, it has approx 36,000 members (both pro & hobbyist) dedicated to one common topic "PLASMA" If I were a retailer to the market I think I would give it a "priority". (But hey that is my point of view)

Yes you did in fact phase out the Duramax series of plasma cutters and replaced it with the SmartSYNC series. My rough numbers indicates this will be a very expensive system to operate. If an employee is to stupid to look at a chart and determine what part goes where then they have no place in front of a CNC control panel with 1,000's of lines of G-Codes and that "killer of all parts" (the hi speed jog command).

Your comparison of the cartridge vs individual piece replacement is like stating that you need to change your engine every time a spark plug goes bad . A small company like myself that has 5 various Duramax torches for 3 of your machines will be forced to start mixing consumables if a SmartSYNC is added.

Like adbuch posted above "Hypertherm is not the only game in town. I hear Thermal Dynamics makes some top-notch stuff as well." I actually looked at them prior to my 1st Hypertherm purchase, the final deciding factor to choose Big Gray was Jim Colt. The man went above and beyond the call of duty to get information out to the masses. Thank You Jim you made a tremendous impact on the industry!

Steve

[beefy]

As for those saying we are dropping the Duramax? where are you getting this from, We will continue to be building that torch for many many years to come, along with the consumables for those torches. In 7 years are you going to be on here still talking about Hypertherm getting rid of the Duramax torch. maybe I should look back and see if there was this much talk about when we discontinued the previous torch in favor of the Duramax? I'll say this again and continue to say it, there is no reason for anyone today or tomorrow or years from now to switch to the SYNC system if you are happy with your Gen4 system and Duramax torch.

The Duramax torch was a completely different thing. Hypertherm gave some true value to the customer without a crazy cost increase.
You had better cut quality, faster cut speed, and longer consumable life. The Duramax probably saved money and made more money at the same time. Plus the individual consumables could be changed out as needed. No cartridge system at 5 to 9 times the price of a nozzle. So I think your comparison is completely unfair.
As far as I'm aware, nobody has complained at all about the Duramax torch. I myself went out and bought the Duramax torch for my Powermax 1250 and only have good things to say about it.

Hypertherm may not be dropping the Duramax torch itself, but they are dropping the ability to USE it if you don't already have, or can acquire a machine that can use one. And as I said earlier Hypertherm decided not to design the new Smartsync system so it could also use the Duramax torch.
So the Duramax torch is now nothing more than an available spare part for the previous/older machines.

[34by151]

Thinking some more about using the standard consumables.
Im assuming a sync torch and some kind of adapter to use the old consumables

Looking at the fault codes it seems the error below would occur

0-14-0 "There is a problem with the cartridge installation" and/or
0-14-1 "The cartridge is not recognized"

The manaual states "This fault code stops the system from operating" but goes on to say

If you do not remove this fault code, the system automatically adjusts the following settings to prevent possible damage to the workpiece and
cartridge:
• It sets the output current to 45 A.
• It sets the operating mode to Cut mode.
• It sets the output gas pressure to cut pressure.

If necessary, you can manually change these settings to cut without a data connection.

Im gessing that means it powers up with the error, the error stays on but you can set the mode/amps and continue on.

[djreiswig]

If it uses an RFID tag in the cartridge, if you could figure out what information is stored, you could create a dummy chip in your adapter and reset it manually to fake out the reader.
I was thinking it would work to replace the torch with the Duramax at the power supply connection, but I suppose you would have the same issue.

[djreiswig]

Looks like you can turn off the smart features in the config. Not sure if you would still get the errors or not.

[mechanicjon]

These units are available to order in the US correct? Has anyone received a SYNC unit? I'm waiting for some feedback from real world use. No first time SYNC video's on YouTube. No real world reviews. Just Hypertherms videos and advertisement type videos. No thread post anywhere that I can find?

[HypHyDef]

SYNC systems are shipping in the USA, people are using them and i'm sure they will start to share. We have had people testing the systems since last summer.

[HypHyDef]

Randy,

I would not consider P Spider to be just another social media site, it has approx 36,000 members (both pro & hobbyist) dedicated to one common topic "PLASMA" If I were a retailer to the market I think I would give it a "priority". (But hey that is my point of view)
Steve

Morning SegoMan,
Plasma Spider is not just another social media site of course, and that was not what I said, which is why I also mentioned "forums" My point was to simply point out that my job isn't to be on the forums 24/7 and when life and my job takes me off the forums for a couple days i'm seeing comments that I have run away or am trying to hide something. The forum members on Plasma Spider are top notch professionals, the community you have here goes above and beyond to help all that come here to ask for help, and we absolutely take your comments seriously and listen to what you say. I do my best to provide information that I can to help answer questions. I completely understand that some are upset by the new SYNC systems that we introduced.