1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
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1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
I had promised a few people some pictures of some thicker material when I got around to cutting some. I cut some 1 1/4" mild steel last weekend, and I must say I was impressed. It was cut at 85 amps with a Powermax 85 with Duramax torch.
The material on the table, note this edge was cut with oxy fuel There was some dross..... However it came off no problem. I cut this "G" first. After it was done, I noticed that one edge of the nozzle was washed out (it was new before this cut). I guess that is where the angularity came from, as the cuts were only angled when the axis was moving in one direction, not the others. The rest of it was square. I replaced the nozzle with another new one and cut this "K". It too was square, all of it. Did I mention how square it was? All cut at book specs, 85 amps, 7 ipm, edge start, cut height 0.060"
I had also been asked if I had some pictures of cuts on thick material with my old torch (powermax 1250 with T80M machine torch) alas, all those were production parts and they are all gone. I don't have any laying around, and never bothered with any pictures.
FWIW, You will be amazed (or at least I was) at how long a slab of 1 1/4" steel will stay hot after it has been cut. I even left the fume extraction running so it was pulling cool air over it for 30 min. Still hotter than I wanted to mess with.
Stay safe and don't put your fingers where they don't belong.
Shane
The material on the table, note this edge was cut with oxy fuel There was some dross..... However it came off no problem. I cut this "G" first. After it was done, I noticed that one edge of the nozzle was washed out (it was new before this cut). I guess that is where the angularity came from, as the cuts were only angled when the axis was moving in one direction, not the others. The rest of it was square. I replaced the nozzle with another new one and cut this "K". It too was square, all of it. Did I mention how square it was? All cut at book specs, 85 amps, 7 ipm, edge start, cut height 0.060"
I had also been asked if I had some pictures of cuts on thick material with my old torch (powermax 1250 with T80M machine torch) alas, all those were production parts and they are all gone. I don't have any laying around, and never bothered with any pictures.
FWIW, You will be amazed (or at least I was) at how long a slab of 1 1/4" steel will stay hot after it has been cut. I even left the fume extraction running so it was pulling cool air over it for 30 min. Still hotter than I wanted to mess with.
Stay safe and don't put your fingers where they don't belong.
Shane
Last edited by Shane Warnick on Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- ben de lappe
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
Excellent! Most impressive. Way to work out the bevel and dross. My max thickness was 1" and my Cutmaster 101 did well well for me at that thickness. Your clean up was phenomenal in the end, fine work.
Heat retention can well last for hours depending on ambient temp and material used. Stainless has impressed me the most. Thanks for the post!
Ben
Heat retention can well last for hours depending on ambient temp and material used. Stainless has impressed me the most. Thanks for the post!
Ben
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
Dang I have to get my duramax torch installed!!
Shane, I noticed you have no or very little sparks shooting out the side of the torch, is that due to the added plate you have on there that the torch goes through? One of the reasons I don't like cutting steel..
Shane, I noticed you have no or very little sparks shooting out the side of the torch, is that due to the added plate you have on there that the torch goes through? One of the reasons I don't like cutting steel..
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
So you have to edge start this cut. How do you do that??
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
Lou,
I added the guard for two reasons. The first was to keep the slag and molten metal ejected from pierces on thicker material off the torch / gantry and from flying out across the shop. The second was to shield the torch and carriage from the heat, as when you are cutting thick plate it gets REALLY hot, so hot it will de-laminate the bottom end of a T80M torch. Ask me how I know... It's made of fiberglass btw (the bottom of the torch assembly). The shield is just barely tight enough to not really move around under normal table movements, but upon a collision, it moves over and hits the tip of the torch tripping the ohmic sensing and it stops the movement. The hole is about 0.10 bigger than the torch (0.050 on each side) and the tip hangs down about 1/8".
As far as the lack of sparks, I don't really see many sparks when cutting thicker steel at slower speeds. Now when I am cutting 14g at 213 ipm, there is a steady stream of sparks that fly across the material being cut, and it changes depending on the direction of travel. I have found the shield also keeps a lot of that finer material off the gantry and carriage assembly, and throws it back down onto the table and it gets sucked under for the most part. I have to scrape the bottom off occasionally as it will grow some boogers, but not too bad.
@ Biker,
To edge start, you just index your material and place the part to be cut on it. Then edit your cut path to start just off the edge of the material. Say 0.10 or even 0.050 off the edge. I set the pierce height the same as the cut height, and no delay, or a minimal one if needed on really thick stuff, say 0.1 seconds. Hit the go button and let it eat. Now, if you have a part that has a hole or window in the middle somewhere, you have to make a hole to start on the edge of. I draw and place the hole, same size as the one I will make. Then use the plasma to mark the center. Move the gantry, make the hole, then convert to cut path and again, edit the cut path to start on the inside of the hole, same parameters as above. I use a rotary broach, smallest one they make for my mag drill is 7/16". It will drill a max of 2 3/16" diameter hole in max 3" plate I use the 7/16' cutter, as it is the smallest, and hence the cheapest cutter. It will cut a 7/16" hole in 1" plate in under 30 seconds. The coolant is not flammable, and has corrosion inhibitor in it so it doesn't rust the parts. I think the gallons of concentrate mix makes 50 gallons of diluted coolant. If you have any more questions or need help getting it done let me know I or someone else I am sure can help.
Shane
I added the guard for two reasons. The first was to keep the slag and molten metal ejected from pierces on thicker material off the torch / gantry and from flying out across the shop. The second was to shield the torch and carriage from the heat, as when you are cutting thick plate it gets REALLY hot, so hot it will de-laminate the bottom end of a T80M torch. Ask me how I know... It's made of fiberglass btw (the bottom of the torch assembly). The shield is just barely tight enough to not really move around under normal table movements, but upon a collision, it moves over and hits the tip of the torch tripping the ohmic sensing and it stops the movement. The hole is about 0.10 bigger than the torch (0.050 on each side) and the tip hangs down about 1/8".
As far as the lack of sparks, I don't really see many sparks when cutting thicker steel at slower speeds. Now when I am cutting 14g at 213 ipm, there is a steady stream of sparks that fly across the material being cut, and it changes depending on the direction of travel. I have found the shield also keeps a lot of that finer material off the gantry and carriage assembly, and throws it back down onto the table and it gets sucked under for the most part. I have to scrape the bottom off occasionally as it will grow some boogers, but not too bad.
@ Biker,
To edge start, you just index your material and place the part to be cut on it. Then edit your cut path to start just off the edge of the material. Say 0.10 or even 0.050 off the edge. I set the pierce height the same as the cut height, and no delay, or a minimal one if needed on really thick stuff, say 0.1 seconds. Hit the go button and let it eat. Now, if you have a part that has a hole or window in the middle somewhere, you have to make a hole to start on the edge of. I draw and place the hole, same size as the one I will make. Then use the plasma to mark the center. Move the gantry, make the hole, then convert to cut path and again, edit the cut path to start on the inside of the hole, same parameters as above. I use a rotary broach, smallest one they make for my mag drill is 7/16". It will drill a max of 2 3/16" diameter hole in max 3" plate I use the 7/16' cutter, as it is the smallest, and hence the cheapest cutter. It will cut a 7/16" hole in 1" plate in under 30 seconds. The coolant is not flammable, and has corrosion inhibitor in it so it doesn't rust the parts. I think the gallons of concentrate mix makes 50 gallons of diluted coolant. If you have any more questions or need help getting it done let me know I or someone else I am sure can help.
Shane
- ben de lappe
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
Thank you Shane for the lesson on thick stuff and edge starting. As an old aircraft metals tech, I didn't run across very much 1-1/4" material.
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
Thanks Shane,
I will have more questions soon. Do you have any problems piercing 3/4 plate.
I will have more questions soon. Do you have any problems piercing 3/4 plate.
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
Biker,
Yes and no. Will it pierce 3/4" plate? Yes. Will it do it every time? No. It "will" pierce 1", but it can get ugly. There is molten stuff flying EVERYWHERE and the thicker the material is, the higher the rate that it misses and doesn't pierce. As the crater gets deeper, the angle of the ejected molten material gets steeper, and climbs closer to 180 degrees, which it basically straight back into the torch and nozzle / shield. When it fails, it has completely scrapped the nozzle and shield, sometimes the ohmic retaining cap as well. So, to top off the $40 of consumables that are scrap, it leaves a nice big fat crater full of junk. Guess what. No more metal to transfer an arc to, or at least not close enough for it to transfer to. So that piece of steel isn't going to be what you were making now either. If it was something with say, 10 holes and a perimeter cut, and it junks the next to last pierce, lots of $ and frustration. Hard on the profit margin, especially with thick plate. A 24" x 24" piece of 1 1/4" weighs like 225# if I remember correctly, or close, and if I get the good guy hook up on a drop that is laying around, I still pay $110 or so for it. Plus I gotta go get it.
I have the map of the road you are thinking about taking, got two shirts and came back. TRUST ME ON THIS, if you are going to be doing much thick stuff, get a mag drill. Cheap ones are in the $750-$800 range, and the cutters start around $60 for the good ones. I don't use the cobalt tipped ones, only use good carbide cutters. I have cut 1000's of holes with my original 7/16" cutter, as long as you keep the coolant flowing, it doesn't get hot, so long as you are cutting mild steel it will take a LONG time to dull. The other nice thing about the carbide cutters is that you can have them sharpened for around $15, long as you haven't broken any teeth. As far as the drill, I bought a Nitto Kohki, comes with some nice features like soft start, two speed, and auto torque indicator, as well as a safety shutdown if it gets in a bind and the bits get stuck. Basically can't make it tear itself up. None of them work for shit on plate thinner than 1/2". but you don't need one on thin plate now do you? You can broach thinner plate if you put a thicker piece under if for the magnet, or say, like I do, throw it up on the welding table with the 1/2" plate table top for backup. Let it hang off the edge just a little and away we go.The drill clamps with something like 4000 lbs of force or some stupid high number. I was surprised at the money I have been able to make with the drill. I charge for broaching holes in thick plate, and people are willing to pay. It seems like a lot to pay for one hole in something, but when you need a hole and have no way to do it correctly, it's a bargain and people never even flinch. I have also been marking, cutting and drilling layout tables for welders. Mark all the holes, cut the perimeter to their size, then drill it all out. 5/8" and 3/4 plate make nice layout tables, and while it's repetitive and tedious, it sure pays good. Generates a lot of traffic for the shop as well. I know it seems like a lot of $ up front, but I have to say it was a great addition to my shop and I would do it again.
I know it's a long winded answer to your question, but hopefully it will save you the same frustrations I had. Hardest lessons learned are the ones best remembered. Or so I have been told
Shane
Yes and no. Will it pierce 3/4" plate? Yes. Will it do it every time? No. It "will" pierce 1", but it can get ugly. There is molten stuff flying EVERYWHERE and the thicker the material is, the higher the rate that it misses and doesn't pierce. As the crater gets deeper, the angle of the ejected molten material gets steeper, and climbs closer to 180 degrees, which it basically straight back into the torch and nozzle / shield. When it fails, it has completely scrapped the nozzle and shield, sometimes the ohmic retaining cap as well. So, to top off the $40 of consumables that are scrap, it leaves a nice big fat crater full of junk. Guess what. No more metal to transfer an arc to, or at least not close enough for it to transfer to. So that piece of steel isn't going to be what you were making now either. If it was something with say, 10 holes and a perimeter cut, and it junks the next to last pierce, lots of $ and frustration. Hard on the profit margin, especially with thick plate. A 24" x 24" piece of 1 1/4" weighs like 225# if I remember correctly, or close, and if I get the good guy hook up on a drop that is laying around, I still pay $110 or so for it. Plus I gotta go get it.
I have the map of the road you are thinking about taking, got two shirts and came back. TRUST ME ON THIS, if you are going to be doing much thick stuff, get a mag drill. Cheap ones are in the $750-$800 range, and the cutters start around $60 for the good ones. I don't use the cobalt tipped ones, only use good carbide cutters. I have cut 1000's of holes with my original 7/16" cutter, as long as you keep the coolant flowing, it doesn't get hot, so long as you are cutting mild steel it will take a LONG time to dull. The other nice thing about the carbide cutters is that you can have them sharpened for around $15, long as you haven't broken any teeth. As far as the drill, I bought a Nitto Kohki, comes with some nice features like soft start, two speed, and auto torque indicator, as well as a safety shutdown if it gets in a bind and the bits get stuck. Basically can't make it tear itself up. None of them work for shit on plate thinner than 1/2". but you don't need one on thin plate now do you? You can broach thinner plate if you put a thicker piece under if for the magnet, or say, like I do, throw it up on the welding table with the 1/2" plate table top for backup. Let it hang off the edge just a little and away we go.The drill clamps with something like 4000 lbs of force or some stupid high number. I was surprised at the money I have been able to make with the drill. I charge for broaching holes in thick plate, and people are willing to pay. It seems like a lot to pay for one hole in something, but when you need a hole and have no way to do it correctly, it's a bargain and people never even flinch. I have also been marking, cutting and drilling layout tables for welders. Mark all the holes, cut the perimeter to their size, then drill it all out. 5/8" and 3/4 plate make nice layout tables, and while it's repetitive and tedious, it sure pays good. Generates a lot of traffic for the shop as well. I know it seems like a lot of $ up front, but I have to say it was a great addition to my shop and I would do it again.
I know it's a long winded answer to your question, but hopefully it will save you the same frustrations I had. Hardest lessons learned are the ones best remembered. Or so I have been told
Shane
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
Shane,
a big thank you for that great info.
I think you've already saved some of us some dollars, time, and frustration, at some point in the future.
Keith.
a big thank you for that great info.
I think you've already saved some of us some dollars, time, and frustration, at some point in the future.
Keith.
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
Thanks Shane!!
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
I'll disagree with Shane a bit. The Powermax85 when properly set up....and to do this you need an accurate height control....will pierce 3/4" with at least 300 pierces before the nozzle is damaged. Pierce height, pierce delay, long enough lead in length are the keys to doing this. It is factory spec'd to pierce 3/4" and I will stand behind that 100%....of course you need to follow the cut charts in order to do so.
Jim Colt
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
Nice Cuts Shane! What is that ground clamp you have on your machine? I cut a bunch of handsaws and would love to have a smaller magnetic clamp that is rated for the machine, but is less obtrusive than the factory clamp.
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
Nacs,
That ground is a magswitch magnetic ground for a welder etc. Magswitch.com.au I believe. I picked it up at the local welding supply, bought two one for that and one for the Mig. The one I have is the 300 amp version. It is taller than I would like but works fine. It will not pass under the gantry, so I have to get creative sometimes. With aluminum I use a small c clamp to clamp a small flat piece of 14g steel to the aluminum, then stick the magnet on that. The magnet part is 1.5" in diameter, overall length with the place where the wire bolts on is 2 3/4", and height is 2 3/8" tall. Could probably change the handle out and lose some height. They make bigger and smaller versions. Around $45 each if I remember correctly.
As far as piercing 3/4" goes, read the last paragraph in the last post on this thread http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=15509
I didn't say it wouldn't, however I can not seem to get it to do it EVERY time. When it doesn't it sucks. If I can get 300 pierces, and I am cutting parts with 10 -12 pierces each, I am changing the nozzle every 25-30 parts. Unless it pierces a little too low, OR some molten metal sprays back onto the tip right at the bottom of a pierce, and damages the nozzle. Then if it does go ahead and pierce, the cut will not be that great, and the next pierce will fail, and there I am.
So, in my experience, I (extremely heavy emphasis on the I part of this statement) have decided that if it is material thicker than 1/2" I will just drill it if it needs a hole, otherwise I edge start and it's not an issue. This is just what works for me, in my shop. I am in no way attempting to discredit Jim (he has forgotten more about this than I will probably ever learn) I am just saying this is what my experience has been. My table runs ohmic sensing and uses arc voltage feedback for height control, and seems to be really accurate with it. However, apparently not everything is perfect every time, and it won't pierce for me, every time. It will do it MOST of the time, but not EVERY time. The incidence of failure gets worse the thicker the metal is greater than 3/4". Exponentially worse. Which the machine isn't rated to pierce thicker than that anyways. I have a refrigerated air drier, a desiccant filter, etc so the air is as clean as I can get it. Moisture shouldn't be a culprit here. It is very possible that there is just some irregularity in the steel I am getting, and maybe the plate has some spots in it where the metallurgy differs enough to cause a problem at max capacity for the machine. Don't know, but I ran out of time / patience chasing it.
Anyways, I hope everyone has a great week and stays safe. Lunch is over I have to get back to making little pieces out of big ones.
Shane
That ground is a magswitch magnetic ground for a welder etc. Magswitch.com.au I believe. I picked it up at the local welding supply, bought two one for that and one for the Mig. The one I have is the 300 amp version. It is taller than I would like but works fine. It will not pass under the gantry, so I have to get creative sometimes. With aluminum I use a small c clamp to clamp a small flat piece of 14g steel to the aluminum, then stick the magnet on that. The magnet part is 1.5" in diameter, overall length with the place where the wire bolts on is 2 3/4", and height is 2 3/8" tall. Could probably change the handle out and lose some height. They make bigger and smaller versions. Around $45 each if I remember correctly.
As far as piercing 3/4" goes, read the last paragraph in the last post on this thread http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=15509
I didn't say it wouldn't, however I can not seem to get it to do it EVERY time. When it doesn't it sucks. If I can get 300 pierces, and I am cutting parts with 10 -12 pierces each, I am changing the nozzle every 25-30 parts. Unless it pierces a little too low, OR some molten metal sprays back onto the tip right at the bottom of a pierce, and damages the nozzle. Then if it does go ahead and pierce, the cut will not be that great, and the next pierce will fail, and there I am.
So, in my experience, I (extremely heavy emphasis on the I part of this statement) have decided that if it is material thicker than 1/2" I will just drill it if it needs a hole, otherwise I edge start and it's not an issue. This is just what works for me, in my shop. I am in no way attempting to discredit Jim (he has forgotten more about this than I will probably ever learn) I am just saying this is what my experience has been. My table runs ohmic sensing and uses arc voltage feedback for height control, and seems to be really accurate with it. However, apparently not everything is perfect every time, and it won't pierce for me, every time. It will do it MOST of the time, but not EVERY time. The incidence of failure gets worse the thicker the metal is greater than 3/4". Exponentially worse. Which the machine isn't rated to pierce thicker than that anyways. I have a refrigerated air drier, a desiccant filter, etc so the air is as clean as I can get it. Moisture shouldn't be a culprit here. It is very possible that there is just some irregularity in the steel I am getting, and maybe the plate has some spots in it where the metallurgy differs enough to cause a problem at max capacity for the machine. Don't know, but I ran out of time / patience chasing it.
Anyways, I hope everyone has a great week and stays safe. Lunch is over I have to get back to making little pieces out of big ones.
Shane
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Re: 1 1/4" mild steel w Duramax torch
Shane....if you are damaging the nozzle or shield when piercing 3/4" at 85 amps then the issue is either too close for pierce height or too short for pierce delay. Both will do a little damage on each pierce and after a few starts you will start losing arc energy density....and then cut quality will suffer.....wildly varying angularity is the symptom. Try higher pierce heights.....maybe as much as about .25", and slightly longer pierce delay. The pierce delay should not allow any z or x or y movement until the sparks are all exiting the bottom of the material. I also increase lead in length when piercing thicker than about 1/2"......as this generally keeps the torch from colliding with the lead in slag pile at the end of the cut.
Still......it is not a good idea to use any plasma cutter 100% of the time at its max rating. If a potential customer sauid he was cutting 3/4" material over about 30% of the time...I would certainly steer him to the PMX105 or 125, and if more than 30%...then I would suggest at least a 200 amp oxygen based plasma.
Jim Colt
Still......it is not a good idea to use any plasma cutter 100% of the time at its max rating. If a potential customer sauid he was cutting 3/4" material over about 30% of the time...I would certainly steer him to the PMX105 or 125, and if more than 30%...then I would suggest at least a 200 amp oxygen based plasma.
Jim Colt