HELP, PLEASE
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HELP, PLEASE
#1. I am having issues with my torch not cutting all the way through my metal. I am running the recommended settings for my torch. 190 IPM with 12ga metal, roughly with the torch about .125 inches above the material. The problems occur on straight lines when the machine goes at it's fastest. It basically looks like a welder running a bead on top of the metal. Can any body tell me why that is happening or some way to fix that?
#2. I am also having trouble with the Torch Height. Some times it drags the metal in parts and others its at the right settings. I adjust the Torch Height knob accordingly to get the torch to raises and lower, but I have to baby sit it the entire time. I don't think it is suppose to be like that. Can anyone tell me the reasoning for that?
#3 Also, I am having problems with air pressure. My machine is suppose to run at 90PSI the best. I l ose pressure and it goes down to 80PSI and the system amber light comes on on my 45 Hypotherm plasma cutter all the time and shows a lose in pressure at the torch. Obviously this causes for the torch to stop in its tracks or not cut through the metal. I have looked on my air tank and adjusted the know to the (+) side. Seems the tank just fills up with more air and build more pressure and the tank still doesn't turn on to refill until it hits below 85 PSI. Is there another adjustment I am missing on here to regulate when I need the air compressor to turn on? It is a brand new tank bought from Tractor Supply.
#2. I am also having trouble with the Torch Height. Some times it drags the metal in parts and others its at the right settings. I adjust the Torch Height knob accordingly to get the torch to raises and lower, but I have to baby sit it the entire time. I don't think it is suppose to be like that. Can anyone tell me the reasoning for that?
#3 Also, I am having problems with air pressure. My machine is suppose to run at 90PSI the best. I l ose pressure and it goes down to 80PSI and the system amber light comes on on my 45 Hypotherm plasma cutter all the time and shows a lose in pressure at the torch. Obviously this causes for the torch to stop in its tracks or not cut through the metal. I have looked on my air tank and adjusted the know to the (+) side. Seems the tank just fills up with more air and build more pressure and the tank still doesn't turn on to refill until it hits below 85 PSI. Is there another adjustment I am missing on here to regulate when I need the air compressor to turn on? It is a brand new tank bought from Tractor Supply.
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
Probably need a few more details to really help...what type of table, type of THC, etc?
You mentioned the Hypertherm 45....are you using the shielded consumables? (if not, you should be) If so, do you have the shield for machine cutting? The hand-cutting shield is meant to be dragged on the steel, and maintain the correct standoff that way. If you're cutting with that shield off the plate, then you're WAY too high. Even if you do have the machine shield, .125 is still twice the distance you should be cutting at. That's a big reason why you might not be cutting all the way through.
If you fix those things, and it's still not cutting through, there's nothing wrong with slowing down. There are so many variables in cutting like this, that it's pretty easy for Hypertherm's recommended settings to not quite work. I usually cut 12 ga. at 45A and 150 IPM, just because my table handles that speed better...I get cleaner cuts than if I speed up.
You mentioned the Hypertherm 45....are you using the shielded consumables? (if not, you should be) If so, do you have the shield for machine cutting? The hand-cutting shield is meant to be dragged on the steel, and maintain the correct standoff that way. If you're cutting with that shield off the plate, then you're WAY too high. Even if you do have the machine shield, .125 is still twice the distance you should be cutting at. That's a big reason why you might not be cutting all the way through.
If you fix those things, and it's still not cutting through, there's nothing wrong with slowing down. There are so many variables in cutting like this, that it's pretty easy for Hypertherm's recommended settings to not quite work. I usually cut 12 ga. at 45A and 150 IPM, just because my table handles that speed better...I get cleaner cuts than if I speed up.
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
I have a Burntable CNC machine. I just bought it in September. Not very satisfied with it either. Yes my torch is shielded. I am cutting at 190IPM right now. The manufacture says to cut at .125 inches above the steel. I am constently adjusting the torch height knob. Still scrapes across the metal. It don't cut when it is doing that, but I can't seem to keep it from doing that.
- Gamelord
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
I think your problem may all be coming from your air pressure. If you can't maintain the proper air inlet pressure, it will effect your cut, cut quality and will effect the voltage between your torch and plate, basically relating to all the problems you are having.
Check your regulator/separator on your plasma, you may need to take it apart and clean it out completely. Also check for moisture in your lines and from your compressor. This too will effect air pressure drop and cause massive amounts of problems with your plasma. If you don't have an air dryer then that may be your issue or adding to it.
Also check your grounding clamp and make sure it is firmly attached and has maximum contact. If you are grounding your table, you may want to temporarily move it directly to your plate just to make sure that is not the problem.
If your compressor is running at 100psi or more, then you should have no issues maintaining 80psi at your plasma. If you are not seeing this then either you have some type of blockage in the line, your hoses are too small or kinked, you have leaks that are giving you pressure drops or your plasma filters are plugged.
Hope this helps.
Check your regulator/separator on your plasma, you may need to take it apart and clean it out completely. Also check for moisture in your lines and from your compressor. This too will effect air pressure drop and cause massive amounts of problems with your plasma. If you don't have an air dryer then that may be your issue or adding to it.
Also check your grounding clamp and make sure it is firmly attached and has maximum contact. If you are grounding your table, you may want to temporarily move it directly to your plate just to make sure that is not the problem.
If your compressor is running at 100psi or more, then you should have no issues maintaining 80psi at your plasma. If you are not seeing this then either you have some type of blockage in the line, your hoses are too small or kinked, you have leaks that are giving you pressure drops or your plasma filters are plugged.
Hope this helps.
Once you take flight, your eyes will forever be turned to the sky." "Lack of appreciation is the worlds biggest crime."
Torchmate 6x14 w/THC Downdraft
Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101
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Torchmate 6x14 w/THC Downdraft
Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101
Corel Draw / Adobe Illustrator
Torchmate CAD
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
Have you broken into my shop and are using my machine?
I too have a burntable with THC problems. Just the oposite as yours though, I can't get my nozzle close enough to the plate. I have "the knob" set almost to the lowest position and still the torch is 1/4" or more off the plate. The dross is unbelievable. I have been cutting by hand for a lot of years and always dragged a block of steel accross the plate to knock the dross off. I thought having a CNC would take care of that and make it easier... Wrong! I can hold a better arc lenght with my hand held torch than with my table.
I know what you mean by having to sit there and baby sit the machine with one finger on the stop button and one hand on "the knob" to TRY to adjust it as it goes. One thing I have gotten good at is recutting. I know the procedure very well to go back and recut a section that failed to cut all the way through.
I have gotten another compressor to gain more air volume and added a dessicant dryer. It has helped some but not much, on a scale of 1-10 about a 2. On a scale of 1-10 not listening to the oiless compressor...35
I wish I could have been more of a help but at least misery loves company.
Merry Christmas and Happy cutting
Gerry
I too have a burntable with THC problems. Just the oposite as yours though, I can't get my nozzle close enough to the plate. I have "the knob" set almost to the lowest position and still the torch is 1/4" or more off the plate. The dross is unbelievable. I have been cutting by hand for a lot of years and always dragged a block of steel accross the plate to knock the dross off. I thought having a CNC would take care of that and make it easier... Wrong! I can hold a better arc lenght with my hand held torch than with my table.
I know what you mean by having to sit there and baby sit the machine with one finger on the stop button and one hand on "the knob" to TRY to adjust it as it goes. One thing I have gotten good at is recutting. I know the procedure very well to go back and recut a section that failed to cut all the way through.
I have gotten another compressor to gain more air volume and added a dessicant dryer. It has helped some but not much, on a scale of 1-10 about a 2. On a scale of 1-10 not listening to the oiless compressor...35
I wish I could have been more of a help but at least misery loves company.
Merry Christmas and Happy cutting
Gerry
Powermax 85
Sheetcam
Mach 3
4 x 4 burntables table
Sheetcam
Mach 3
4 x 4 burntables table
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
Try using unshielded consumables. I've not tried it on Hyperthem, but I know with TD if the tip wears even slightly the jet can shoot off to an angle. When that happens, the jet arcs to the shield which fools the THC into thinking it is closer to the metal than it is, which makes the torch rise. We have customers running Hyperthem machines with shielded consumables and no one has reported an issue, but it's worth a try. We have to modify the TD shield caps to make them work.
Not cutting all the away through is a symptom of either not enough current, cutting too fast or both. Low pressure can cause that, but not likely unless you're dropping down past 60PSI. The plasma shouldn't fault at 80PSI. The torch height rising will also cause it to not go all the way through. If you're cutting right at the upper limit at the recommended height, then the height increases, it cause it to blow back and stop cutting through. If you're having THC issues, that could be it.
What are you cutting at 190IPM ans at what current? I agree with the above post, Faster is almost never going to give you a better cut. The numbers in the manual for both TD and Hypertherm are optimistic most of the time. Use them as a starting point and tune accordingly.
Not cutting all the away through is a symptom of either not enough current, cutting too fast or both. Low pressure can cause that, but not likely unless you're dropping down past 60PSI. The plasma shouldn't fault at 80PSI. The torch height rising will also cause it to not go all the way through. If you're cutting right at the upper limit at the recommended height, then the height increases, it cause it to blow back and stop cutting through. If you're having THC issues, that could be it.
What are you cutting at 190IPM ans at what current? I agree with the above post, Faster is almost never going to give you a better cut. The numbers in the manual for both TD and Hypertherm are optimistic most of the time. Use them as a starting point and tune accordingly.
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
Truecutcnc,
I will beg to differ with you on a couple of points:
-The shielded consumables on the Hypertherm Powermax systems use a technology called "conical flow" that is patented by Hypertherm....the shielded consumables on any other brand does not use this technology. Conical flow provides a higher arc energy density...which provides squarer edges and longer consumable parts life. Hypertherm machines have the availability of non shielded consumables....but they are not recommended for best cut cut quality or consumable life...normally the non shielded parts are only used in hand or 3 dimensional cutting applications where a little more front end torch clearance is necessary.
-The cut speeds in the Hypertherm manuals are correct. There is a column for maximum speed and a column for optimal cut quality. The optimal quality speeds should always be used for mechanized cutting....and assuming that all of the parameters (air pressure, amperage, pierce height, pierce delay time, cut height and cut speed) are set correctly I will stand behind these specs. I do not consider them "optimistic at best"....rather they are conservative and will produce the best cut quality.
-Faster speeds (than the optimal speeds on Hypertherm cut charts) will produce less chance of dross, but more edge angularity. This is true with any plasma.
Make sure with the Powermax system that you are using the shielded consumables that are designed for mechanized cutting (the shield for hand cutting is different from the mechanized shield). Pierce height and pierce delay are critical to prevent nozzle orifice damage.....the cut height listed in the manual is critical to control cut quality. If the cut is too high.....expect plate warpage, a wide kerf, heavy dross, bad angularity and possibly not cutting all the way through. The cut height for most materials with a Powermax 45 (using the machine shield) is .060" off the plate. Adjust the heiht knob or voltage until the torch is riding at that height (about the thickness of a nickel) and you will get the best results.
I have not personally used a Burntables machine, however I have watched a few operate. From my perspective the height control seemed capable of maintaining the correct height...and produced decent cut quality.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
I will beg to differ with you on a couple of points:
-The shielded consumables on the Hypertherm Powermax systems use a technology called "conical flow" that is patented by Hypertherm....the shielded consumables on any other brand does not use this technology. Conical flow provides a higher arc energy density...which provides squarer edges and longer consumable parts life. Hypertherm machines have the availability of non shielded consumables....but they are not recommended for best cut cut quality or consumable life...normally the non shielded parts are only used in hand or 3 dimensional cutting applications where a little more front end torch clearance is necessary.
-The cut speeds in the Hypertherm manuals are correct. There is a column for maximum speed and a column for optimal cut quality. The optimal quality speeds should always be used for mechanized cutting....and assuming that all of the parameters (air pressure, amperage, pierce height, pierce delay time, cut height and cut speed) are set correctly I will stand behind these specs. I do not consider them "optimistic at best"....rather they are conservative and will produce the best cut quality.
-Faster speeds (than the optimal speeds on Hypertherm cut charts) will produce less chance of dross, but more edge angularity. This is true with any plasma.
Make sure with the Powermax system that you are using the shielded consumables that are designed for mechanized cutting (the shield for hand cutting is different from the mechanized shield). Pierce height and pierce delay are critical to prevent nozzle orifice damage.....the cut height listed in the manual is critical to control cut quality. If the cut is too high.....expect plate warpage, a wide kerf, heavy dross, bad angularity and possibly not cutting all the way through. The cut height for most materials with a Powermax 45 (using the machine shield) is .060" off the plate. Adjust the heiht knob or voltage until the torch is riding at that height (about the thickness of a nickel) and you will get the best results.
I have not personally used a Burntables machine, however I have watched a few operate. From my perspective the height control seemed capable of maintaining the correct height...and produced decent cut quality.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
trucutcnc wrote:Try using unshielded consumables. I've not tried it on Hyperthem, but I know with TD if the tip wears even slightly the jet can shoot off to an angle. When that happens, the jet arcs to the shield which fools the THC into thinking it is closer to the metal than it is, which makes the torch rise. We have customers running Hyperthem machines with shielded consumables and no one has reported an issue, but it's worth a try. We have to modify the TD shield caps to make them work.
Not cutting all the away through is a symptom of either not enough current, cutting too fast or both. Low pressure can cause that, but not likely unless you're dropping down past 60PSI. The plasma shouldn't fault at 80PSI. The torch height rising will also cause it to not go all the way through. If you're cutting right at the upper limit at the recommended height, then the height increases, it cause it to blow back and stop cutting through. If you're having THC issues, that could be it.
What are you cutting at 190IPM ans at what current? I agree with the above post, Faster is almost never going to give you a better cut. The numbers in the manual for both TD and Hypertherm are optimistic most of the time. Use them as a starting point and tune accordingly.
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
Jim....
I know what's recommended, but I would still try unshielded consumables before replacing a THC. Like I mentioned, none of our customers are reporting issues, but it only takes 2 minutes to give it a try. If the THC is fluctuating from 3/8 to dragging, there is either an issue with the THC or there is a substantial fluctuation in the arc voltage. We did have one PM85 with a bad divider board out of the box.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the cut speeds. If a customer is cutting "by the book" and it's not burning all the way through, would you tell him to slow down or send the unit in for service?
I know what's recommended, but I would still try unshielded consumables before replacing a THC. Like I mentioned, none of our customers are reporting issues, but it only takes 2 minutes to give it a try. If the THC is fluctuating from 3/8 to dragging, there is either an issue with the THC or there is a substantial fluctuation in the arc voltage. We did have one PM85 with a bad divider board out of the box.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the cut speeds. If a customer is cutting "by the book" and it's not burning all the way through, would you tell him to slow down or send the unit in for service?
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
The voltage feedback signal will be the same regardless of shielded or unshielded. It's worth a try....but does not seem like the correct step to solve the height control issue....just my opinion!
If you are cutting "by the book" and not getting through the plate.....then I would look for a problem with air flow (under flowing conditions).
-Bad, missing torch oring
-Leak or restriction in the torch or leads
-worn out/bad retaining cap or swirl ring
-Plugged, saturated inlet filter
-inadequate inlet plumbing (hose dia. too small, hose too long, too many fittings)
Changing the speed might get you through the cut to get a job done....but what I am saying is that if you cannot get a good cut at the book specs (speed, height, pierce height, pierce delay, amperage)...then there is something wrong with the system that should be fixed. The paramters listed in the Hypertherm manuals for mechanized cutting are well engineered, and I will stand behind them 100%.
I'm not trying to knock anyones capability....but I know the Hypertherm systems pretty well (in 3 weeks I have been with them for 36 years!).
Jim Colt
If you are cutting "by the book" and not getting through the plate.....then I would look for a problem with air flow (under flowing conditions).
-Bad, missing torch oring
-Leak or restriction in the torch or leads
-worn out/bad retaining cap or swirl ring
-Plugged, saturated inlet filter
-inadequate inlet plumbing (hose dia. too small, hose too long, too many fittings)
Changing the speed might get you through the cut to get a job done....but what I am saying is that if you cannot get a good cut at the book specs (speed, height, pierce height, pierce delay, amperage)...then there is something wrong with the system that should be fixed. The paramters listed in the Hypertherm manuals for mechanized cutting are well engineered, and I will stand behind them 100%.
I'm not trying to knock anyones capability....but I know the Hypertherm systems pretty well (in 3 weeks I have been with them for 36 years!).
Jim Colt
trucutcnc wrote:Jim....
I know what's recommended, but I would still try unshielded consumables before replacing a THC. Like I mentioned, none of our customers are reporting issues, but it only takes 2 minutes to give it a try. If the THC is fluctuating from 3/8 to dragging, there is either an issue with the THC or there is a substantial fluctuation in the arc voltage. We did have one PM85 with a bad divider board out of the box.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the cut speeds. If a customer is cutting "by the book" and it's not burning all the way through, would you tell him to slow down or send the unit in for service?
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
The first thing you need to do is to go to book specs. The spec for cutting 12 gauge is with the 45 amp consumables running at 45 amps. Pierce height is .15", cut height is .06" (you state you are cutting at .125.....that is way too high, and is likely causing the poor cut).
On corners where your machine slows....the arc can penetrate because it is going slower....o straights, because the torch is too high there is not enough power to penetrate. You can either slow down (which I don't recommend) or you can cut at the correct height at 190 ipm (I recommend this!)
The Powermax45 , like most plasma's....has in internal pressure switch that shuts it down when air pressure is too low....this is to save the torch and consumables from damage. The inlet pressure range (dynamic) when flowing is between 90 and 135 psi.....to make the torch air flow without firing, turn the amperage knob fully CCW. You should have a gauge right at the rear panel inlet to monitor pressure while flowing...if it ever gets below 90, you will need to make changes to your air supply (larger compressor, larger diameter hoses, less restrictions (a lot of filters, fittings etc.). A drop in air pressure while cutting will make the torch height change....that is because the height control is monitoring the voltage of the arc (measured betwen the electrode and the plate being cut)...and when the air pressure changes...the resistance of the arc changes...which changes the arc voltage and fools the height contol....the result is a wrong height. There likely is an adjustable pressure switch on your compressor....maybe you need to bump up the low end of the air compressor cycle?
Jim Colt Hypertherm
On corners where your machine slows....the arc can penetrate because it is going slower....o straights, because the torch is too high there is not enough power to penetrate. You can either slow down (which I don't recommend) or you can cut at the correct height at 190 ipm (I recommend this!)
The Powermax45 , like most plasma's....has in internal pressure switch that shuts it down when air pressure is too low....this is to save the torch and consumables from damage. The inlet pressure range (dynamic) when flowing is between 90 and 135 psi.....to make the torch air flow without firing, turn the amperage knob fully CCW. You should have a gauge right at the rear panel inlet to monitor pressure while flowing...if it ever gets below 90, you will need to make changes to your air supply (larger compressor, larger diameter hoses, less restrictions (a lot of filters, fittings etc.). A drop in air pressure while cutting will make the torch height change....that is because the height control is monitoring the voltage of the arc (measured betwen the electrode and the plate being cut)...and when the air pressure changes...the resistance of the arc changes...which changes the arc voltage and fools the height contol....the result is a wrong height. There likely is an adjustable pressure switch on your compressor....maybe you need to bump up the low end of the air compressor cycle?
Jim Colt Hypertherm
jsw621 wrote:#1. I am having issues with my torch not cutting all the way through my metal. I am running the recommended settings for my torch. 190 IPM with 12ga metal, roughly with the torch about .125 inches above the material. The problems occur on straight lines when the machine goes at it's fastest. It basically looks like a welder running a bead on top of the metal. Can any body tell me why that is happening or some way to fix that?
#2. I am also having trouble with the Torch Height. Some times it drags the metal in parts and others its at the right settings. I adjust the Torch Height knob accordingly to get the torch to raises and lower, but I have to baby sit it the entire time. I don't think it is supposed to be like that. Can anyone tell me the reasoning for that?
#3 Also, I am having problems with air pressure. My machine is suppose to run at 90PSI the best. I l ose pressure and it goes down to 80PSI and the system amber light comes on on my 45 Hypotherm plasma cutter all the time and shows a lose in pressure at the torch. Obviously this causes for the torch to stop in its tracks or not cut through the metal. I have looked on my air tank and adjusted the know to the (+) side. Seems the tank just fills up with more air and build more pressure and the tank still doesn't turn on to refill until it hits below 85 PSI. Is there another adjustment I am missing on here to regulate when I need the air compressor to turn on? It is a brand new tank bought from Tractor Supply.
- Marty
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Re: HELP, PLEASE Jim
Jim are you still there today? Maybe finishing your Christmas shopping!
Anyway, I am having some challeges similiar to jsw621, but will lay out the specifics
Shop Sabre 4896, Hypertherm M65, Win CNC with their THC, 14 gauge cold rolled steel, fine cut consumables, constant 85-120 psi to the M65, and multiple air filters including pre and post filters between an oversized dessicant dryer with new (blue)
The setup has worked very nicely for a year always using Hypertherm cut charts to the letter
The Problem is two fold, not cutting all the way thru intermittently, and torch diving intermittantly
I tried slowing down, and then upped voltage a a bit, then left the shop last night o go cry:):), ruined a 4x8 to scrap,
So this morning, I decided to go to exact book settings, (45A, .06H, .15 initial, .4 PD, 82 volts set, and 220 ips cut speed. I also very closely examined consumables and cleaned thoroughly all parts and replaced nozzle and electrode with new ones.
I did one cut, a small one, and no diving but hit a patch or two of "incomplete cut"
I have been wondering about my dirty slaggy slats, as far as their conductivity,.I have a good dedicated earth ground from table ground lug to earth ground. (Not using the Building ground). I have the Hypertherm large ground cable connected to a 300 amp magnetic clamp, which clamps to the sheet metal. I have a small ground wire (installed by Shop Sabre) going from the Hypertherm to the table ground lug.
I did very recently completely drain my water table and cleaned out the sludge with a good flush and drain routine. I use Sodium Carbonate in the water to keep the PH up which seems to imped rust, I moved some of the slat around to get at the sludge and scraps .
Two questions/ideas
I want to slow down the cut speed, which in the past has eliminated any problems with "incomplete cut", but I am scared of torch dive. I just want to have a repeatable scenario with my machine, so I can troubleshoot and learn some pitfalls.
Also I have read about a grounding scheme that makes sense, which is, to run the Hypertherm large ground cable to the table ground lug, then a jumper from there to the magnetic clamp
Any comment?
Thanks!!
Anyway, I am having some challeges similiar to jsw621, but will lay out the specifics
Shop Sabre 4896, Hypertherm M65, Win CNC with their THC, 14 gauge cold rolled steel, fine cut consumables, constant 85-120 psi to the M65, and multiple air filters including pre and post filters between an oversized dessicant dryer with new (blue)
The setup has worked very nicely for a year always using Hypertherm cut charts to the letter
The Problem is two fold, not cutting all the way thru intermittently, and torch diving intermittantly
I tried slowing down, and then upped voltage a a bit, then left the shop last night o go cry:):), ruined a 4x8 to scrap,
So this morning, I decided to go to exact book settings, (45A, .06H, .15 initial, .4 PD, 82 volts set, and 220 ips cut speed. I also very closely examined consumables and cleaned thoroughly all parts and replaced nozzle and electrode with new ones.
I did one cut, a small one, and no diving but hit a patch or two of "incomplete cut"
I have been wondering about my dirty slaggy slats, as far as their conductivity,.I have a good dedicated earth ground from table ground lug to earth ground. (Not using the Building ground). I have the Hypertherm large ground cable connected to a 300 amp magnetic clamp, which clamps to the sheet metal. I have a small ground wire (installed by Shop Sabre) going from the Hypertherm to the table ground lug.
I did very recently completely drain my water table and cleaned out the sludge with a good flush and drain routine. I use Sodium Carbonate in the water to keep the PH up which seems to imped rust, I moved some of the slat around to get at the sludge and scraps .
Two questions/ideas
I want to slow down the cut speed, which in the past has eliminated any problems with "incomplete cut", but I am scared of torch dive. I just want to have a repeatable scenario with my machine, so I can troubleshoot and learn some pitfalls.
Also I have read about a grounding scheme that makes sense, which is, to run the Hypertherm large ground cable to the table ground lug, then a jumper from there to the magnetic clamp
Any comment?
Thanks!!
Ignition Metal Art Design
Give a man a fish and you have taught him where to come for a fish; Teach him to use Google and the Search Engine on Plasma Spider and he will be able to learn more than you could ever teach him yourself
Give a man a fish and you have taught him where to come for a fish; Teach him to use Google and the Search Engine on Plasma Spider and he will be able to learn more than you could ever teach him yourself
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
The problem with the book is that unless the engineers came up with those numbers using the same equipment the operator is using, you can and will see variations. I'd venture to guess that the Hypertherm engineers were not using a CandCNC THC and a Home Depot compressor when they wrote the book.jimcolt wrote:The voltage feedback signal will be the same regardless of shielded or unshielded. It's worth a try....but does not seem like the correct step to solve the height control issue....just my opinion!
- Gamelord
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
Trucut...it doesn't matter what compressor or THC or table is being used at all, (unless they are faulty or inferior) ... if you set the torch pierce & cut to the correct height - and then set the cut speed to the correct cut speed - IT WILL CUT CORRECTLY! It doesn't matter what your other gear is at all, the torch is a torch and will cut regardless of what THC/Table it is clamped onto.
Now, if you are implying that the Burntables THC does not have the capability to maintain the correct torch height during the cut, then yes, Hypertherm probably didn't use that option when getting their values...but seriously, if the THC is a piece of crap that doesn't work, what do you suggest to use for values? Maybe get a dart board with some various tags on it and throw a dart before each cut??? I know if my THC didn't work right or if I had to babysit and constantly adjust it, I would be on the phone with the maker doing some serious demanding - or purchasing another brand - or both. If I had to control the height manually during every cut...WTH do I need a THC for?
I will have to side with Jim 100% on this. If you follow the book and you are not getting acceptable cuts, then most likely, something else is wrong.
Now, if you are implying that the Burntables THC does not have the capability to maintain the correct torch height during the cut, then yes, Hypertherm probably didn't use that option when getting their values...but seriously, if the THC is a piece of crap that doesn't work, what do you suggest to use for values? Maybe get a dart board with some various tags on it and throw a dart before each cut??? I know if my THC didn't work right or if I had to babysit and constantly adjust it, I would be on the phone with the maker doing some serious demanding - or purchasing another brand - or both. If I had to control the height manually during every cut...WTH do I need a THC for?
I will have to side with Jim 100% on this. If you follow the book and you are not getting acceptable cuts, then most likely, something else is wrong.
Once you take flight, your eyes will forever be turned to the sky." "Lack of appreciation is the worlds biggest crime."
Torchmate 6x14 w/THC Downdraft
Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101
Corel Draw / Adobe Illustrator
Torchmate CAD
Torchmate 6x14 w/THC Downdraft
Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101
Corel Draw / Adobe Illustrator
Torchmate CAD
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
Good morning,
I didn't want to say anything earlier because I am the one with the problem and looking for any answers I can find, but I wanted to agree with Jim and now Gamelord has a similar take on the situation. I have been using Hypertherm book settings (right or wrong is for someone else to argue) because I have eliminated a variable. If I use the same settings and get different results something else is wrong. Once I seen the cuts people on this site are doing mine look like crap and I have to figure out why.
As for contacting Burntables, I have and haven't gotten this resolved yet or maybe ever. All they tell me is to visually look at the pierce and cut height and try to keep it around 1/8" by adjusting "the knob"! I am relatively new to cnc cutting compared to hand cutting but I know that isn't right.
Let me know what you think of my numbers as I don't know what to expect from new 65 amp consumables in 3/8" plate, 45ipm,65 amps (powermax 85), pierce height and cut height between .020" and .375". It stopped cutting after 45 pierces and 280 inches. If I cut 16ga. steel I use a 45amp nozzle 300ipm, and get 60 pierces and about 375 inches before their gone.
I knew going into this there would be a learning curve but I didn't expect to miss the curve and fall off the cliff hitting every rock on the way down.
If I decide to say screw the rest of the warrany could I find a different THC that would work with my system?
GM
Burntables table
Mach3
Sheet cam
HP powermax 85
I didn't want to say anything earlier because I am the one with the problem and looking for any answers I can find, but I wanted to agree with Jim and now Gamelord has a similar take on the situation. I have been using Hypertherm book settings (right or wrong is for someone else to argue) because I have eliminated a variable. If I use the same settings and get different results something else is wrong. Once I seen the cuts people on this site are doing mine look like crap and I have to figure out why.
As for contacting Burntables, I have and haven't gotten this resolved yet or maybe ever. All they tell me is to visually look at the pierce and cut height and try to keep it around 1/8" by adjusting "the knob"! I am relatively new to cnc cutting compared to hand cutting but I know that isn't right.
Let me know what you think of my numbers as I don't know what to expect from new 65 amp consumables in 3/8" plate, 45ipm,65 amps (powermax 85), pierce height and cut height between .020" and .375". It stopped cutting after 45 pierces and 280 inches. If I cut 16ga. steel I use a 45amp nozzle 300ipm, and get 60 pierces and about 375 inches before their gone.
I knew going into this there would be a learning curve but I didn't expect to miss the curve and fall off the cliff hitting every rock on the way down.
If I decide to say screw the rest of the warrany could I find a different THC that would work with my system?
GM
Burntables table
Mach3
Sheet cam
HP powermax 85
Powermax 85
Sheetcam
Mach 3
4 x 4 burntables table
Sheetcam
Mach 3
4 x 4 burntables table
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
The table has little effect until you get into industrial plasma but the compressor, which comes back to air quality, and THC most certainly do matter. If you don't believe that, try cutting with a 10CFM compressor from Home Depot, then go buy a 40CFM screw drive compressor with a refrigerated dryer. There is also a huge performance difference between a hobby THC's and the units offered by ProMotion, burny, Hypertherm, etc. A more stable THC makes a difference in the cut.Gamelord wrote:Trucut...it doesn't matter what compressor or THC or table is being used at all,
As for where to set the numbers? If I had a Burntable sitting here I could tell you. If the THC is bouncing and not maintaining a stable height, then I agree that this needs to be dealt with first. If it's running Mach3 and the THC uses the Mach3 THC inputs, then it will never be perfectly stable. There will always be a slight "bounce". The higher you set "THC Feedrate" the more pronounced the bounce. Using a courser pitch lead an the Z leadscrew also helps to reduce this effect.
If the THC is bouncing then running the cut height at .06 may be difficult. Depending on how much bounce there is, you may be dragging the torch on the low side of the bounce.
There is a laundry list of factors that can effect a cut. Any one of them may differ from your shop to mine...or hyperthem's test lab. When a customer calls with a cut quality issue, we look at the cut and suggest changes to one or more parameters, which may include pressure, feedrate, consumables, cut height, pierce height and air quality. So far, everyone is producing good quality cuts.
As I see it, if you see those numbers a written in stone and are not willing to deviate from them....and have stable THC control, consistent pressure, good consumables and all other parameters are by the book and it's not burning through at the feedrate in the book, then the only option is to send the plasma in for service.
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
Does this mean your pierce height and cut heights are fluctuating between .02 and .375. Piercing 3/8 plate at .02 will destroy your consumables. I pierce 3/8 at .25 and cut at 30IPM @ 65A. If you look at the post called "Plate Dogs" you can see an example of 3/8 cut at these settings. There was virtually no dross and a near perfect kerf angle.GPM870 wrote: pierce height and cut height between .020" and .375".
We cut 16GA at 40A @ 160IPM.
If your THC uses the Mach3 TC inputs to control the Z, there is no way it can keep up with an even moderate amount of warpage at 300IPM. That's a limitation in Mach3. If your THC is bouncing that bad, you'll be better off just turning it off. Just configure Mach3 so you can control the Z while cutting using the keyboard.
- Gamelord
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
Trucut, I agree with your post, and that was the point I was trying to make, as long as your THC, Compressor and table are not faulty or inferior - meaning they are proper equipment and working at the minimum required levels - then you should be able to go by the book right to the number and get the correct cut - it really doesn't matter what brand you use, even a Home Depot compressor will work - as long as it is up to the task at hand and can meet the minimum requirements...btw, I have been using a HD compressor for 5 years now and it works perfectly fine. (I would however like to upgrade to a screw style one of these days.) Obviously you are not going to get a decent result from a compressor that struggles to provide 40 psi, but if your compressor can adequately provide 140 psi, and you have proper filters/coolers in line, and your supplied air pressure at the torch is a continuous 80psi (or whatever your torch requires), the torch doesn't care what type or where you purchased your air compressor, it will work.
If you set the torch to the numbers Hypertherm has stated, and you are not getting satisfactory results (given that the torch is actually in good working condition) then the problem has to be somewhere else, you may be able to overpower the problem by adjusting the numbers up or down or changing the speed etc... but there still is a problem somewhere else that should be addressed. Saying that Hypertherm's numbers are not correct and that you need to adjust them because a customer decides to use a poor quality inadequate compressor, or refuses to get a line filter or chiller is just not correct and is not Hypertherm's fault.
If you set the torch to the numbers Hypertherm has stated, and you are not getting satisfactory results (given that the torch is actually in good working condition) then the problem has to be somewhere else, you may be able to overpower the problem by adjusting the numbers up or down or changing the speed etc... but there still is a problem somewhere else that should be addressed. Saying that Hypertherm's numbers are not correct and that you need to adjust them because a customer decides to use a poor quality inadequate compressor, or refuses to get a line filter or chiller is just not correct and is not Hypertherm's fault.
Once you take flight, your eyes will forever be turned to the sky." "Lack of appreciation is the worlds biggest crime."
Torchmate 6x14 w/THC Downdraft
Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101
Corel Draw / Adobe Illustrator
Torchmate CAD
Torchmate 6x14 w/THC Downdraft
Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101
Corel Draw / Adobe Illustrator
Torchmate CAD
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
We used a HD compressor...actually a number of them...for a few years. It was the 60 gallon, 13CFM model. It worked, but it ran non-stop while the plasma was running. That means that the plasma is drawing more than the compressor can put out, which means that as you cut, your pressure slowly drops. That's not usually an issue in small shops or on hobby machines, but when you're cutting pallets of steel in a day, it's a big problem. We were replacing compressors every 6 or 8 months. Recip compressors are not designed to run at 100%.
When we switched to a 40CFM screw compressor and refrigerated dryer, we were able to increase feedrates a little, cuts started looking a lot more consistent and we saw about a 1/3 increase in consumable life....Probably because of the refrigerated dryer. rule of thumb we use for compressors, which has always held true, is if the compressor doesn't cycle off while the plasma is running, it's too small. Screw drive is a bit different in that they are designer to run at 100% duty cycle.
I didn't say their numbers were not correct, just that they may not be correct in every case. When a customer calls they want to know how to get the job done. If they have inadequate compressor, we point that out, then show them how to get the job done with what they have on hand.
When we switched to a 40CFM screw compressor and refrigerated dryer, we were able to increase feedrates a little, cuts started looking a lot more consistent and we saw about a 1/3 increase in consumable life....Probably because of the refrigerated dryer. rule of thumb we use for compressors, which has always held true, is if the compressor doesn't cycle off while the plasma is running, it's too small. Screw drive is a bit different in that they are designer to run at 100% duty cycle.
I didn't say their numbers were not correct, just that they may not be correct in every case. When a customer calls they want to know how to get the job done. If they have inadequate compressor, we point that out, then show them how to get the job done with what they have on hand.
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
The torch height is very easy to use, the reason we say 1/8" is to get people started and less likely to hit the pierce point slag.
BurnTables THC:
Read the THC instructions carefully. After reading the instructions, view this video for more info on the THC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gd2Kd7AObA
?Pierce Delay? has 4 settings: Off, .05 seconds, 1 second, 1.5 seconds. Pierce Delay is the time the machine pauses before it starts its motion after it fires the torch.
IMPORTANT Adjust the pierce height before cutting out a part. To set this correctly, the plasma power supply needs to be ?Off? and the THC in the control software to be ?ON?. Load the test G-code file and press ?Cycle Start?. Let the torch touch the material then rise up until it stops. The reading in the z axis digital read out window will be the ?Pierce height?. If this is not correct, adjust the knob Counterclockwise (-) or clockwise (+) in small increments and then press ?stop? and ?rewind G-code?. Press ?cycle start? again until the correct height is achieved.
Set the ?Anti Dive? setting in the BurnTables program to 110 (under the THC button). This will get you started in cutting small pieces. Before moving to larger pieces, read and calibrate the Torch Height detailed below. Also understand how the Anti Dive setting works (covered later in the manual). Make sure feed rate for the thickness of material is correct (SheetCAM), if you are going too fast or too slow. This will affect the THC.
THC Calibration (cutting larger pieces):
Set the anti dive speed to 85 and load the test .tap file.
The Torch Height Control works like a cruise control in a car. Set the height via the Torch Height knob to a set height and the THC keeps that set height when cutting, similar to setting the speed on the cruise control. THC will maintain that height, while materials warp form heat. Only adjust the Torch Height knob when cutting straight lines! This is when the speed of the machine is above the Anti Dive speed and is taking input from the THC. A good starting point for the Torch Height knob is to turn the knob all the way clockwise, then back it off counter clockwise an 1/8 of a turn. If the torch is too low while
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cutting a straight line, turn the torch height knob clock wise to raise the torch. Counter clock wise will lower the torch. The torch should be about an 1/8 inch above the material while cutting.
The Torch Height will periodically need to be adjusted to compensate for wear in the consumable. The THC has a delayed response so it will take some time to react to you turning the knob. Once the sweet spot is found, it is very sensitive. Small inputs will greatly affect changes to the height of the torch.
Video on how to set up the THC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gd2Kd7AObA
Make sure the Plasma Cutter is on the expandable metal setting and the amperage of the machine matches the consumables in the torch. If the torch stops cutting and the machine stops running, check the plasma for fault codes.
BurnTables THC:
Read the THC instructions carefully. After reading the instructions, view this video for more info on the THC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gd2Kd7AObA
?Pierce Delay? has 4 settings: Off, .05 seconds, 1 second, 1.5 seconds. Pierce Delay is the time the machine pauses before it starts its motion after it fires the torch.
IMPORTANT Adjust the pierce height before cutting out a part. To set this correctly, the plasma power supply needs to be ?Off? and the THC in the control software to be ?ON?. Load the test G-code file and press ?Cycle Start?. Let the torch touch the material then rise up until it stops. The reading in the z axis digital read out window will be the ?Pierce height?. If this is not correct, adjust the knob Counterclockwise (-) or clockwise (+) in small increments and then press ?stop? and ?rewind G-code?. Press ?cycle start? again until the correct height is achieved.
Set the ?Anti Dive? setting in the BurnTables program to 110 (under the THC button). This will get you started in cutting small pieces. Before moving to larger pieces, read and calibrate the Torch Height detailed below. Also understand how the Anti Dive setting works (covered later in the manual). Make sure feed rate for the thickness of material is correct (SheetCAM), if you are going too fast or too slow. This will affect the THC.
THC Calibration (cutting larger pieces):
Set the anti dive speed to 85 and load the test .tap file.
The Torch Height Control works like a cruise control in a car. Set the height via the Torch Height knob to a set height and the THC keeps that set height when cutting, similar to setting the speed on the cruise control. THC will maintain that height, while materials warp form heat. Only adjust the Torch Height knob when cutting straight lines! This is when the speed of the machine is above the Anti Dive speed and is taking input from the THC. A good starting point for the Torch Height knob is to turn the knob all the way clockwise, then back it off counter clockwise an 1/8 of a turn. If the torch is too low while
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cutting a straight line, turn the torch height knob clock wise to raise the torch. Counter clock wise will lower the torch. The torch should be about an 1/8 inch above the material while cutting.
The Torch Height will periodically need to be adjusted to compensate for wear in the consumable. The THC has a delayed response so it will take some time to react to you turning the knob. Once the sweet spot is found, it is very sensitive. Small inputs will greatly affect changes to the height of the torch.
Video on how to set up the THC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gd2Kd7AObA
Make sure the Plasma Cutter is on the expandable metal setting and the amperage of the machine matches the consumables in the torch. If the torch stops cutting and the machine stops running, check the plasma for fault codes.
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
IF you have a bouncing Z then you are too fast on the Z rate and the THC cannot keep up with compensation and overshooting occurs on both ends high and low. Simply slow the Z rate down until it is stable. There is a very fine line on Zrate DEPENDING on the THC and is important to get it correct.
Most DIYers end up way to slow 1/2_10 screws and then run out of torque and have to run slow Zrates to keep from loosing steps. about 1" per REV is optimum with a popular THC
When cutting 18/16 guage I use an alternant strategy and use fine cut tips and slower feed rates and get perfect cuts with VERY minimal bottom side dross.
Just a thought, (;-)TP
Most DIYers end up way to slow 1/2_10 screws and then run out of torque and have to run slow Zrates to keep from loosing steps. about 1" per REV is optimum with a popular THC
When cutting 18/16 guage I use an alternant strategy and use fine cut tips and slower feed rates and get perfect cuts with VERY minimal bottom side dross.
Just a thought, (;-)TP
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
I am having a similar problem today.. The item started cutting and then the torch started dragging and then got stuck to the metal and almost yanked my torch off the table. Before even starting the cut I had just readjusted the torch height using burn tables recommended ways with the plasma off and the torch being 1/8" off the metal. Then when I started cutting it seemed like it was running right against the metal. What could be the cause of this? Happened on several cuts but the last one scared me to death when it moved a full sheet of metal when the torch stuck to it.
- acourtjester
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
First of all you should have started a new topic and listed more info about the specs you are trying to use and your equipment. Things like Plasma unit, amps, pierce height, cut height, thickness of metal and speed. Do you have a floating head assembly or ohmic touch to find the top of the metal it does not sound like you do or the table would have stopped with a fault.
DIY 4X4 Plasma/Router Table
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
Hypertherm PM65 Machine Torch
Drag Knife and Scribe
Miller Mig welder
13" metal lathe
Small Mill
Everlast PowerTig 255 EXT
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Re: HELP, PLEASE
I have a burn table- Hypertherm 45 trying to cut 14ga and my torch keeps dragging. Using the recommended settings Burntables gave me in the Sheet Cam to create the G-code and replacing my switch the torch is still dragging. Has anyone had any luck on the THC?acourtjester wrote:First of all you should have started a new topic and listed more info about the specs you are trying to use and your equipment. Things like Plasma unit, amps, pierce height, cut height, thickness of metal and speed. Do you have a floating head assembly or ohmic touch to find the top of the metal it does not sound like you do or the table would have stopped with a fault.