Hypertherm 1650 cut quality problem

[adventureleven]

Hello, i am new to this site. I have been cutting with this set-up for over a year now. I am having problems with bevel angle not being consistant. I am running a hypertherm 1650 on a Samson 510 (plasma cam software with the latest updates) I am cutting .250 P & o. the bevel angle is from 0 to 20 degrees at worst. I am using a handheld torch with mechinized shielded consumables. 60 amp nozzel. cutting 70 ipm, 55 amps on the machine and about .065 to .070 height with 75psi. there is VERY little dross and a pretty nice cut. My problem is i can cut about 6 (these parts are a 6" o.d. ring with four 7/16 holes and a 3" i.d.) acceptable parts with bevel angle of 0 to 4 or 5 degrees and then i get negative bevel on one side and the positive bevel getts real bad like 15-20 degrees. If i just change the tip, no help, if i just change the electrode, no help. I have to change them both at the same time and then i can get a few more parts. The used tip and electrode both still look almost brand new just very little heat coloring. There is nothing on the tip and the torch is 90 degrees to the cutting surface in all directions. I have changed all other consumables multiple times (swirl ring, retaining cap, shield, and o-ring). I am also running multiple filters and a refrigerated air dryer. I have been fighting this problem for the last couple weeks and getting real tired of changing the consumables not to mention the cost. I know the consumables last longer than this, many times i have cut a half a sheet of these parts on 2 tips and 1 electrode (70 parts) like i said i have been using this set-up for over a year and we cut many different parts from 14 ga to 3/4 but mostly 10 ga, .1875 and .250. up to 8 sheets a day. Is there a possibilty i have been getting a bad run of consumables? The electrodes look a little rough latley (they are genuine hypertherm). Please help.

[jimcolt]

There are a few things you can do to improve.....and their are quite a few things that you may or may not be doing...that you have not mentioned! The severe bevel angles indicate that you are damaging your consumables....either by piercing too close to the plate, or by overpowering the nozzle, or just as likely, with moisture in your air supply.

First of all, for best quality on any given material thickness in terms of edge squareness, use the lowest power process and consumables that list that thickness....for 1/4" material you should use the 40 Amp counsumables and process.

Also, and I'll make an assumption here that you are using a hand torch on your Samson machine, follow the specs and use the consumables listed for machine torch cutting in your manual. You should be using the machine torch shield, the ohmic retaining cap, and following the list of optimum cutting speeds on the machine cutting chart......even if you are using the hand torch. It is a machine cutting application. The shield will make a big difference.

Another thing...using a 60 amp nozzle at 55 amps will not buy you anything.....except for worse cut edge angularity. Always operate the consumables at their rated amperage.....with the exception of the FineCut parts, with hose consumables follow the Hypertherm specs.

Hopefully you are using the height control and pierce height functions on the Samson....it has a very well designed torch height control....which requires the use of the machine shield (listed above) and the ohmic retaining cap. Follow the specifications on the cut charts and always set the material thickness on the Samson, set calibrate before first cut on the height control tab, and always set the cut height according to the Hypertherm manual.....which I believe is .062" (1/16") when cutting 1/4" at 40 amps, and set the pierce height to at least double the cut height...even more (up to .220") for piercing heavier material. Make sure you set the "time to pierce" to a long enough duration so that the plasma arc fully penetrates the plate before x or y motion starts.

Last but not least, and this is the biggest complaint in regards to cut quality and consumable life durring hot, humid summer weather....make sure there is no moisture in you compressed air. Drain the tank at least daily (best to have an auto drain that drains the tank on every compressor cycle), you muct also have some sort of moisture trap or drying system to remove condensed moisture before it gets to the plasma system....the best system is a refrigerated air dryer (harbor freight has a system that works well, under $400, often you can find used ones on Craigslist) second best is a dessicant dryer, third best is some type of absorbing or coalescing filter system. When water gets in the torch you are essentially changing the nitrogen and oxygen content in the torch....tipping the laws of physics, causing rapid consumable wear and resulting in poor cut quality.

Can you provide pics of the cuts you are getting? Pics of the consumables?

Hopefully we can help you out....you have a great system there....and it should be performing much better.

Jim colt

Hello, i am new to this site. I have been cutting with this set-up for over a year now. I am having problems with bevel angle not being consistant. I am running a hypertherm 1650 on a Samson 510 (plasma cam software with the latest updates) I am cutting .250 P & o. the bevel angle is from 0 to 20 degrees at worst. I am using a handheld torch with mechinized shielded consumables. 60 amp nozzel. cutting 70 ipm, 55 amps on the machine and about .065 to .070 height with 75psi. there is VERY little dross and a pretty nice cut. My problem is i can cut about 6 (these parts are a 6" o.d. ring with four 7/16 holes and a 3" i.d.) acceptable parts with bevel angle of 0 to 4 or 5 degrees and then i get negative bevel on one side and the positive bevel getts real bad like 15-20 degrees. If i just change the tip, no help, if i just change the electrode, no help. I have to change them both at the same time and then i can get a few more parts. The used tip and electrode both still look almost brand new just very little heat coloring. There is nothing on the tip and the torch is 90 degrees to the cutting surface in all directions. I have changed all other consumables multiple times (swirl ring, retaining cap, shield, and o-ring). I am also running multiple filters and a refrigerated air dryer. I have been fighting this problem for the last couple weeks and getting real tired of changing the consumables not to mention the cost. I know the consumables last longer than this, many times i have cut a half a sheet of these parts on 2 tips and 1 electrode (70 parts) like i said i have been using this set-up for over a year and we cut many different parts from 14 ga to 3/4 but mostly 10 ga, .1875 and .250. up to 8 sheets a day. Is there a possibilty i have been getting a bad run of consumables? The electrodes look a little rough latley (they are genuine hypertherm). Please help.

[adventureleven]

Thank you for your reply!

I agree that i am somehow i am damaging my consumables.
I am using a refrigerated dryer and filters. I have clean dry air.
I am using the machine torch consumables with the omic sensing cap.
I may be to short on the "time to peirce" i will work on that.
I will look at raising my peirce height.
It seems i have been having problems since i uploaded the latest version of plasma cam they sent me. version 3.11

Here are some pictures

IMG_1694small.jpg (85.75 KiB) Viewed 6349 times

IMG_1694small.jpg (85.75 KiB) Viewed 6349 times

[adventureleven]

Ok. I raised my peirce height from .150 to .20 and changed my "time to peirce" from .35 to .50. New electrode and tip cutting height at .065 (i checked it) and raised the amprage to 60 with 60 amp consumables also increasing my speed to 84.

Cut 3 parts and it started getting bad, no change.

Like i said before, with a new tip and electrode it will cut just fine for a few parts and then......The bevel seems to always be the same way on the x axis. Positive bevel on one side and negetive bevel 180 degrees from there.
If i misalign the torch i can get it to cut a few more parts but i know that is not right.

Does this consistancy in inconsistancy tell you anything?

[adventureleven]

here are the pics of the new consumables after 2 decent parts 2 bad parts and 2 parts with the torch misaligned.

[precision]

Hi,
I run a hypertherm 1000. (same basic torch). I recently found that when assembling the torch head it is possible to have the nozzle slightly cocked, and causing cut problems. Now i always assemble without the shield cap in place. When installing the nozzle holder, i carefully rotate the nozzle to insure it seats properly. then install the shield cap last.
Might help, might not, just my .02 worth. Good luck, and if you'd like to send me all those nozzles and electrodes......I'll use them, they look great.
Mike

[jerrybarrett]

I have a couple of questions. Did you draw the part that you are cutting? I am running two machines just like yours and i find that if i have to change something on the program where i use the X to exp then relink the drawing after convert path it will change direction of travel .PHEW LONG SENTANCE!!!! If i am correct ID cuts require Clockwise dir OD cuts require CCwise directions or fice versa. Mr Jim Colt which way is it . My old feeble mind at sixtythree can't remember. this may help.may not butiwould check. Great Forum Guys & Gals .i am learning a lot. jerry barrett

[Loyd]

I had this very same problem 2 times in the last 3 years. On both occasions my local welding supply along with my local Hypertherm rep determined that it was my torch (hand torch). Both times the torch lasted approx 1 year. When the torch was replaced it took care of my problem both times.
Loyd

[adventureleven]

Thanks for the help guys!
Ok, i will tell you i think i have it figured out or at least narrowed down.

From the best i can tell i recieved a bad run of retaining caps or swirl rings. I went through 6 of each replacing them with new ones and it would do the same thing.
Finnaly i put in an old retaining cap and swirl ring with another new tip and electrode....BLAM...perfect cuts again! Ran the rest of those parts, half a sheet and no problems (38 parts).

So i loaded another sheet and started using all the tips and electrodes i thought were bad, they were still OK and i was getting decent cuts.

Now i have not tried switching out the swirl ring or retaining cap seperatley to find out which one it was, its hard to change when its cutting nice and i just need to get the parts cut.

I will be doing more cutting next week after welding and forming the parts from today.

Note: the last 6 new swirl rings i got had burs on most of the little holes and i dont think they should be there.

I will take your advice about putting the sheild on last to make sure the tip is seated properly. Thanks
Also to the other guy, OD cuts clock wise and id cuts counter clock wise. Your right, you have to watch that. Dont mirror a part that has already been converted to a cut path and as a rule of thumb dont work on a drawing that has been converted to a cut path.

Thanks again for your input, when i figure out exactly what was causing it i will post.

[adventureleven]

Hey Loyd,
Have you thought about going to a true machine torch? I was thinking about that. It seems the air is traveling a little funny because the way the cord is run on a hand held torch and could wear or something?

I i guess i will make a new post on that and see what people think and have done or reccomend.

[Loyd]

I have thought about a machine torch I think it might make a difference.
Loyd

[adventureleven]

FYI, I am still having the same bevel cut issues. Thought i would give an update.

My welding supplier is working on getting me a new torch and try that (a loaner). He talked to the head guy in salt lake at hypertherm, they think it is the torch or the machine. I guess they just recently let go the hypertherm rep for phoenix area so no help there.

I can put in an old retaining cap and get decent cuts but i know something is wrong. I just put in new retaining cap, swirl ring, tip and electrode (AGAIN!) and same bevel issue. Recap: a few shields, 5 or 6 new retaining caps, 7 + swirl rings 20+ tips and electrodes, i have good clean dry air, good grounds, straight torch.

[jimcolt]

Double check to ensure you have the right mix of parts numbers for consumables in your torch. The retaining cap definitely can affect cut edge angularity as it controls the air flow to the shield. Make sure the oring on the torch body is in good shape. If you have new caps that do not cut as well as the old cap....then contact me with part number info, also with your distributor name and the Hypertherm rep in Salt Lake.....and I'll make sure the parts get replaced.

There is no difference in air flow or performance between the hand and machine torches, however it is easier to square a machine torch to the plate. I use a machine torch on my PlasmaCam machine. The used consumables you show in the picture appear to have no damage. Is the height control maintaining the proper height through the cut? The bevel to me looks like the torch is riding too high off the plate.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[adventureleven]

Thanks Jim
They sent me a new torch and it seemed to help the issue. I have triple checked that i am using the correct part numbers. Height controll works well and i am running about .060 to .065 to the sheild. I have only had a chance to cut about 100 parts since out of .1875 material and some misc other parts out of .500 steel. Good so far..... i got about 500 pierces cutting the 3/16 and the tip/ electrode are still ok.

One last question...
could running a phase coverter to get my 3 phase power be an issue? We run 2 large phase converters to run the entire shop from compressors to iron workers, 130 ton press brake with CNC controls and laser, mills lathes, saws, grinders also with NC controlls. I have never had a problem before, maybe the plasma could have an issue?

My sales guy is looking into replacing some of the stuff, thanks.