Dynatorch water table

[Rockchucker]

Hi kids!
Ive got a Dynatorch xlr-8 with a water table that came with the machine. It appears that whatever black magic happens inside the tank has gone haywire as there are bubbles furiously coming out the water when i add air. Im assuming that I melted a hole in that bladder or whatever is in there when I welded up a leak last week. this whole setup seems to be a non servicable part (without cutting it all apart). does anyone have any insight as to whats inside these things? Where can i get a bladder thing or what can be used instead? The machine is working every day so id really rather not shut it down any longer than absolutely necessary for exploratory surgery.
Thanks in advance and keep makin smoke!

[ROKCRLER]

Have you called Russell?
https://cncshopandservice.com/contact-us/

[Rockchucker]

Hi Mo! No I havent yet. Helpful as he is hes kinda my last resort as getting parts of any size shipped all the way from southern states to northern Alberta is inconvenient at best and butt puckering expensive at worst. I read some stuff saying guys are doing this without a bladder at all but havent been able to find much info on how.

[adbuch]

Why not just ditch the bladder and convert it to a conventional water tray? I assume that when you air up the bladder it forces the water up thru some holes into the water pan under the grates. Maybe just plug those holes and fill the tray with water - just keep adding water as it evaporates.

David

[Rockchucker]

That’s what’s happening Right now David. The only hitch is I’ve lost the ability to raise /lower my water level. Not the end of the world and I might just carry on like this for the foreseeable future. Thing is, I’m in the fixing business and when my own equipment doesn’t operate as it should it bothers me. If I can find a reasonable solution, I’d like everything working. I imagine one day if things are slow I’ll cut it apart and fix it properly. I was thinking last nite an innertube patch will probably work. When it’s apart I’ll blast and coat everything as well so it will not be a quick afternoon fix.

[DieselFumes]

I would think that a patch would be the best and cheapest way to go for sure. Not sure what those bladders are made from but hopefully you can make it work. Curious how it works out for you.

[Rockchucker]

I'll let you know how the drama unfolds. won't be for a bit here as things are crazy busy in the shop( good problem to have).

[SegoMan DeSigns]

I'm sure you have bladder manufactures up north, just disassemble and speck it out and or patch it on your own. Like others have posted make the bladder container water tight and plumb 2"-4" pipe from the bottom of the tank into the the bottom of the tray. Just make sure it has a pressure pop off valve plumbed into the system.

[68rscamaro]

I build Bladder tables and there is no actual part that is the "bladder" I'm guessing you just need to add more water. If there's not enough water in the bottom tank to fill the top it will push air (bubbles) out instead of raising the water level.

[PlasmaDon]

I wonder why the need to adjust the water level ?
I keep mine between 1/4" and 1/2" below the surface for everything.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

I wonder why the need to adjust the water level ?
I keep mine between 1/4" and 1/2" below the surface for everything.

I like draining my tray back into the tank for parts retrieval. It cuts down on evaporation and makes clean up go quicker.

[Rockchucker]

I build Bladder tables and there is no actual part that is the "bladder" I'm guessing you just need to add more water. If there's not enough water in the bottom tank to fill the top it will push air (bubbles) out instead of raising the water level.

Interesting. what keeps the air and water seperate? I've read stuff along this line but cant figure how thats achieved? I always fill my table until its just below where i want it then use the air to fine tune. Mebbe I've been doing it wrong all along.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

There is some blank spots here and confusion of water tray only and tank and tray combos.

The actual bladder tanks I saw in the past had a bolt on access door to install / remove the bladder from (just like in wing tanks on planes).

What 68rscamaro speaks of is a sealed vessel that has plumbing from the bottom of the tank to the bottom of the water tray. when air is forced on top of this system it pushes the water through the pipe into the tray. release the air and gravity takes over pushing the water back into the tank. You stated you had a leak you fixed. was it a cracked weld?

Like others have posted if you don't keep the tank full as it get low the air will bubble back to the top or in my case it is a belch of air. Does your tank have a sight glass so you can see how much water is in it? Does it have a fill hole you can look in? Some pics would clarify things.

[Rockchucker]

Now I see! the pipes go from bottom of the tray to near the bottom of the tank. air above forces water up pipes. Super simple. I feel like a Dummy now. It was not a cracked weld but a rusted thru spot. There is no sightglass , access or port of any kind. theres just the 1"NPT ports that the air goes into. Ill drain the water this afternoon and seee if i can peek in the holewith my borescope

[SegoMan DeSigns]

If the tray is welded to the top of the tank (that would explain your bubbles )just look down the tray drain hole for water level.

[68rscamaro]

I'm not sure what table you have so I'm obviously not familiar with that construction.
A lot of people tend to over think things. Our tables are very simple (in concept) there are 2 "chambers" top and bottom. The water sits in the bottom until you fill it with air which always wants to go up. So as you add air to the bottom chamber it pushes water through the 1" opening and fills the top section where the slats are. when you want to drop the water you simply open a valve that's right at the top of the lower chamber and it lets the air out and in turn, drops the water

Here's a link that shows a little about it

[68rscamaro]

here's a pic of the side view. Just because there's no need to download the dxf

[Rockchucker]

nice lookin tables 68 and thanks for the insight !So definitely no bladder as I was envisioning in there. Certainly nothing a tire patch will fix! lol Still something fishy tho. I filled with water till just the lower tank was full .When I pressured it up with air the water level rose nicely in the tray but at around 2/3 full the bubbles started coming out again. Trying to wrap my welder brain around the physics that could cause this. I would imagine it should blow bubbles all the time if theres aleak between the 2 chambers. Im thinking mebbe a cracked weld around one or more of the tranfer pipes. . Understand that I dont expect anyone to make my dreams all come true via the interwebs. Just sharing my experience as I learn. I appreciate all the info shared by those with much more experience in such things than me!

[68rscamaro]

There still may not be enough water. I'm still guessing there's air trapped in the lower tank. Make sure the drain valve (or whatever you use to lower the water) is open when you fill. If there's air trapped in there it's consuming the space for water, So you add water until you think it's full but it's 1/2 (or whatever) full of air.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

68,

Good design and build on the tables, I have seen that water tank design used in some local builds but not on a commercial unit. Your phone number shows your in Idaho, I've been there several times and floated the Salmon / Snake rivers.. My shop full of CNC tables / press brake would have made the rafting frame builds go a lot quicker.