Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

[PlasmaDon]

My thought on this new management style from Hypertherm:
1. They should have NOT dropped the non-sync, let the customer decide Sync or NonSync.
2. It's obvious to me, there was not enough time for real world testing. The machines are the highest priced
ones out there, I'm not going to be a "Lab Rat" for you.

Now I'm sure some will come on here, and blast me with "we did tons of testing".
And my answer is simple, explain these failures.

You obviously did NOT do enough testing.

Fix these failures, and not on the customers dime.

"Make it Right".

[rdj357]

Fix these failures, and not on the customers dime.

"Make it Right".

To my knowledge, they did. They acknowledged the problem, recalled (I was told, I think, about 100,000 cartridges) the FineCut cartridges and reissued a corrected design for free with no cost to the consumer and no need to return the old style cartridge.

I agree - I liked the Duramax torch. I guess they thought it was time to change.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

1. They should have NOT dropped the non-sync, let the customer decide Sync or NonSync.

Yup it was a forced upgrade. The non-SYNC W/Duramax torch was a good unit then they fixed it till it wasn't.. Funny how Hypertherms presence on this forum diapered after they told us how much better the new system was supposed to be..

[PlasmaDon]

I'll wager a new management team came in.

[rick_b]

rdj357, our consumer protection laws here suck, we are stuck with the machine.

cutnweld, now that I have a log of all consumables used, to be honest none of them have a good cut life and across the board, our costs are up 3x what we spent on the old consumables.

[PlasmaDon]

Fix these failures, and not on the customers dime.

"Make it Right".

To my knowledge, they did. They acknowledged the problem, recalled (I was told, I think, about 100,000 cartridges) the FineCut cartridges and reissued a corrected design for free with no cost to the consumer and no need to return the old style cartridge.

I agree - I liked the Duramax torch. I guess they thought it was time to change.

Based on all the postings here, I stand by my simple math, that says they didn't.

What is your relationship with Hypertherm ?

[djreiswig]

1. They should have NOT dropped the non-sync, let the customer decide Sync or NonSync.

I've looked at the service manuals for the sync & non sync, and I think it would be possible to 3d print an adapter to fit the Duramax torch into the socket for the sync torch. The sync has a larger plug, so a bushing should be able to be made. The connections are very similar. I posted this idea some time ago, but I guess nobody took me up on the idea. Probably a market out there for something like this.
Or one could possibly retrofit the sync connector to a Duramax torch if it's available as a repair part.

[rdj357]

Based on all the postings here, I stand by my simple math, that says they didn't.

So you are basing your opinion on random postings on an internet forum? For every one person here complaining about SYNC, how many are out happily cutting away, oblivious of these posts? That wouldn't be empirical data at all. I absolutely feel for rick_b - he has been hosed by a plasma table manufacturer. Hell, I'm pissed off on his behalf but that doesn't help him nor does it mean that the SYNC system isn't any good.

I don't think either one of us has the data and we may never be able to access it to know how many SYNC systems have been sold, how many cut inches and pierces are out there happening right now, and how many of them are having trouble with them. I'm certainly not saying that all is sunshine and roses. I'm saying that I have used them as have many others here and many others not here and that they perform very well overall for most people.

What is your relationship with Hypertherm ?

I am their customer. I currently own two systems: a 45XP with machine torch and 50' hand torch for the service truck/mobile cutting setup and a Powermax 85 that I purchased the December before the SYNC release with a machine torch and hand torch on the 5x10 shop table. Both work very well and I use a SYNC cartridge adapter on the shop setup. I am also a teacher and 5 years ago, Hypertherm sent me both a hand and machine torch teaching aid to be used in my classes. I requested a SYNC teaching aid when it was released and was refused. I also complained loudly both publicly here and privately by email to them when SYNC FineCut cartridges were first released because they didn't work well with ohmic sensing. After their initial denial, I participated in a forum discussion with them as well as by email. I was sent (4) beta FineCut cartridges to test for them which I did and reported those findings to them AND posted here publicly with pictures and statistics. The revision was ultimately made permanent and they recalled all the original FineCut cartridges and issued free replacements of the revised FineCut cartridges which have been working well for almost every person I have spoken with. To that point, I speak to many owners as I do teach and offer support and assistance to many owners.

Bottom line, I am a customer with no affiliation or compensation. I use their product, I help people who have their products as well as other manufacturers so I am able to see first hand how other brand machines compare. I offer here the best, most unbiased information that I believe I can and always allow for the potential that I could easily be very wrong about anything.

[PlasmaDon]

1. They should have NOT dropped the non-sync, let the customer decide Sync or NonSync.

I've looked at the service manuals for the sync & non sync, and I think it would be possible to 3d print an adapter to fit the Duramax torch into the socket for the sync torch. The sync has a larger plug, so a bushing should be able to be made. The connections are very similar. I posted this idea some time ago, but I guess nobody took me up on the idea. Probably a market out there for something like this.
Or one could possibly retrofit the sync connector to a Duramax torch if it's available as a repair part.

But why should we have to when purchasing the most expensive "Cadillac" plasma cutting system out there ?

[PlasmaDon]

for just being a customer, you seem to counter every single post that may be negative towards hypertherm.

Just sayin'.

don't even bother a reply, I know what it would be.

[weldguy]

I have been around here for over a decade and I have read likely almost all of Roberts posts because I enjoy reading MOST of them, he is definitely not affiliated with Hypertherm. He does however have more experience with the Sync system than many here do since he actually bought the Sync adapter, gave them a try, voiced publicly here his disappointment in the Finecut's which led to the problem being solved by Hypertherm. I was actually very impressed with how Hypertherm handled it. That being said I am not a fan of the Sync, not because I have had a bad experience, I actually have no experience. I just don't like being forced into this system and never noticed a problem in the past mixing and matching nozzles/electrodes based on what I needed to cut to save money.

[djreiswig]

1. They should have NOT dropped the non-sync, let the customer decide Sync or NonSync.

I've looked at the service manuals for the sync & non sync, and I think it would be possible to 3d print an adapter to fit the Duramax torch into the socket for the sync torch. The sync has a larger plug, so a bushing should be able to be made. The connections are very similar. I posted this idea some time ago, but I guess nobody took me up on the idea. Probably a market out there for something like this.
Or one could possibly retrofit the sync connector to a Duramax torch if it's available as a repair part.

But why should we have to when purchasing the most expensive "Cadillac" plasma cutting system out there ?

Because it appears it might be the only option to get a Duramax to work on a new power unit.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

I seriously doubt it will happen but Hypertherm needs to make a field installable replacement socket for the machine that would work with the Duramax torch's.

I posted these number in August of last year even with the recent price hike the numbers are still significant.


Electrodes $44 / 5 = $8.80

Nozzles $34 / 5 = 6.80

$6.80
$6.80
$8,80

---

$22.40 / 2 - $11.20 / change

Shield $18

Swirl ring $20

O-Rings (outsourced) $2
---

$40 / 10 = $4

$11.20 + $4.00 = $15.20 total per change

That is less than 1/3 of your SmartSYNC costs at $53 (to break even with the new system they would have to last 3.4 times longer)

So for every 10 changes of your SmartSnync you spend $530 and I only spend $153. If time is that important have a second stack of consumables ready to change out then clean / inspect old stack while cutting.

Upgraded cost breakdown from original numbers with new prices:

53 - 15 = $38 (additional sync costs)

If you change your consumables twice per:

Month that's $76 x 12 = $912 / yr
Week $76 x 52 = $3,952 / yr
Day $76 x 5 x 52 = $19,760 / yr

[rick_b]

I don't just have a lot of trouble with all the SYNC consumables' short lifespan compared to the old ones. I also have a lot of trouble with the Hypertherm Ethercat, THC, Edge Connect, and the Phoenix software. This time I ordered all Hypertherm electronics thinking that they would all talk to each other better, boy was I wrong, looking at it now, I would have been better off with someone else's controller/electronics and only using the Hypertherm power supply and torch which is how our old machine was.

One of the things I have real trouble with is all the extra costs, the old consumables would cost us around $25 ea, and the SYNC consumables now cost us around $85 ea and we use 3x more SYNC than we did the old ones.

[Gogo]

I’ve got a sync 65 cart I’ve used on 4 1/4” sheets I’ve cut at least 200 parts on it and it won’t die, I keep watching it, and it keeps cutting fine. But my TCH is tuned pretty well. THC issues will kill a sync cart fast. But if you have it dialed in my experience is they will last a very long time. YMMV. This has been my experience. I use both, I have the adapter. The sync carts ride a lot higher and it is my opinion that adds to the life. I have no dog in the fight. Use what ever you like I don’t care.

[Awesome]

I posted these number in August of last year even with the recent price hike the numbers are still significant.


Electrodes $44 / 5 = $8.80

Nozzles $34 / 5 = 6.80

$6.80
$6.80
$8,80

---

$22.40 / 2 - $11.20 / change

Shield $18

Swirl ring $20

O-Rings (outsourced) $2
---

$40 / 10 = $4

$11.20 + $4.00 = $15.20 total per change

Where are you buying your consumables that cheap? Or are you buying knockoffs? I can only find knockoffs at those prices. My local supplier wants $25 EACH for the electrodes, and $20 EACH for the nozzles. Needless to say, I bought a set of knockoffs as I can buy 4x the number of knockoffs and still come out ahead.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Genuine Hypertherm consumables are the only thing used on my machine and or hand torches. I buy by the multi-packs for additional savings.

Try Bakergas or harrisweldingsupplies

[acourtjester]

Just got some from Baker Gas If you look on Amazon they sure are cheap, in more ways that one.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

Tom,

Bakergas has free freight on $100 or more purchases, They also have a current promotion of 5% off $150+ of Hypertherm consumables..

Steve