Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

[Joe Jones]

It is no secret that I run the PlasmaCam 4x4 plasma table as well as it's "Big Brother," The Samson 510 plasma table. I cannot comment on the other machines because I have no experience with them. However, I do have this to offer.

Cutting the sheet metal into your widgets to sell is the smallest part of your business. You need to decide WHAT you will sell. If you are going to buy (or pirate, or illegally copy) assorted DXF files and cut the same things everyone else is making, then it really doesn't matter WHICH table you buy. A plasma table is a plasma table, and the torch will not cut any better or faster on one brand to the next. If you use a Hypertherm 45XP, you will get the same product out of ANY plasma table.

The torch cannot cut Design-A any faster or better faster on a (insert table manufacturer's name here) machine than it can on a PlasmaCam table, and it cannot cut any faster on a PlasmaCam table than on a (insert table manufacturer's name here) machine. That is just a fact. Yes, some tables are heavier, or they use better components to move the gantry and carriage around. I am not particularly fond of the "barebones" bolt-together construction of the PlasmaCam tables, which use cam followers rolling on the edges of softer steel 10 gauge rails, for example. I think glide rails are a better and more consistently accurate over time option. So the construction of the table is worth SOME consideration.

For me, when I shopped for my first table (the Samson 510) I looked at the SOFTWARE. Most of the table brands use two or three different software packages to produce the DXF files that are ultimately cut out of sheet metal. You buy the table, AND Mach 3, AND CorelDraw, AND this program AND that program, and you eventually end up with the file that DesignEdge can produce from start to finish, including running the table itself. The selling point for ME, was the all-in-one, EASY TO USE and very versatile DesignEdge software from PlasmaCam.

On my motorcycle tours around America, I ran across several metal art stores and venues, vendor booths, etc. I would walk in and look at the assortment of things they were selling. Every place had the SAME things ... the three wolf heads, the deer heads, the bear at the stream, the hunter and dog, the Kokopeli figures, etc., etc. I was not impressed by the things they had to offer, because I saw the SAME THINGS everywhere I went. I liken it to walking into a Hobby Lobby or a Michael's anywhere in America, expecting to see SOMETHING DIFFERENT, only to discover that every store offers the exact same products.

When I opened my store and (eventually) SIX vendor booths in various vendor malls, the comment I always heard was, "I haven't seen anything like this stuff anywhere else!" That is because everything I made was original art drawn by myself or my (then) business associates. We did not sell anything that came from the extensive art libraries of DXF files found everywhere. Of course, we also did custom pieces, which were child's play using DesignEdge software.

So before you run out to buy the table, give serious thought to the SOFTWARE you will also use to produce your products. Decide what YOU are going to sell, and where those cut files will come from.

If you are only going to acquire existing DXF files from whatever legal or illegal source you may encounter, then get ANY table and start cutting. It won't make any difference, because you will ONLY be able to compete by price, since everyone else CAN AND WILL make the exact same things you are making.

However, if you are going to sell original art that YOU, or your wife, or kids, or friends create, then the design software is FAR more important than deciding on the cnc table that does the actual cutting.

Joe

[adbuch]

For $10K all in including plasma cutter/drier/computer - Plasmacam or Sampson is out of reach.
David

[Joe Jones]

For $10K all in including plasma cutter/drier/computer - Plasmacam or Sampson is out of reach.
David

There are a lot of used tables out there.

Joe

[Locust]

So much for the reply subscription. I had no idea there was more discussion in this thread.

Anyway, I pulled the trigger on the Langmuir Crossfire Pro table and got free shipping and a Hypertherm 45 from my local weld supplier with a little bit of a price break, a refurbished laptop for $330, and an Arrow desiccant dryer from Global Industrial. About $6300.

I looked at the Hypertherm 45 vs 65 and what sold me on the 45, other than cost, was that Hypertherm lists it as engraving capable, but not the 65. I figured that might be something of benefit at some point.

I see the benefits of having an all in one program for design/pathing but at this stage, that isn't a deal breaker for me. My background is in CNC machining, I could probably start writing G-code directly to the machine if I really wanted. I may eventually do something like that as I don't see an option on the Langmuir website for rotary work and I may want to build that in.

Anyway, thanks for the advice and info. I'm excited to take delivery and start playing with my new machine. I've got a lot of ideas already.

[acourtjester]

Maybe David (adbuch) will jump in he has a nice rotary setup used for plasma work. I built a simple one for my table sometime back do not use it much.

[adbuch]

So much for the reply subscription. I had no idea there was more discussion in this thread.

Anyway, I pulled the trigger on the Langmuir Crossfire Pro table and got free shipping and a Hypertherm 45 from my local weld supplier with a little bit of a price break, a refurbished laptop for $330, and an Arrow desiccant dryer from Global Industrial. About $6300.

I looked at the Hypertherm 45 vs 65 and what sold me on the 45, other than cost, was that Hypertherm lists it as engraving capable, but not the 65. I figured that might be something of benefit at some point.

I see the benefits of having an all in one program for design/pathing but at this stage, that isn't a deal breaker for me. My background is in CNC machining, I could probably start writing G-code directly to the machine if I really wanted. I may eventually do something like that as I don't see an option on the Langmuir website for rotary work and I may want to build that in.

Anyway, thanks for the advice and info. I'm excited to take delivery and start playing with my new machine. I've got a lot of ideas already.

You should now receive automatic email notifications of any replies to your thread, or any other threads you have responded to.

I have a 45xp, but have not used it for any engraving/scribing work. Jim Colt (formerly of Hypertherm) had a nice demonstration of a plaque he made for his self contained small cnc plasma cutter for the SEMA show a few years back. I believe he may have been using nitrogen or argon instead of compressed air.

I assume when you are talking about the benefits of an all in one program for design/pathing you are referring to Plasmacam Design Edge. For you new Langmuir table you could use Fusion 360 for cad/cam/post process to g-code and then simply FireControl to run g-code on the table. Langmuir has some excellent Fusion 360 tutorial videos.

https://www.langmuirsystems.com/software/fusion

I am not aware of a turn-key rotary setup offered by Langmuir. You could very easily create an accessory tube cutter as Tom has shown above. You would need to purchase an additional stepper motor like the one used to drive your gantry. Once setup, your Y-axis will now be your rotary (circumference of your pipe or tube) and you x and z will still function the same. Scale your drawing in the Y direction such that your total drawing height matches the outer circumference of the tube or pipe you are cutting.

I built my stand-alone rotary pipe/tube cutter using the Plasmacam tube cutter upgrade kit plus a spare gantry, carriage, controller, and wiring harness purchased from Plasmacam. It works the way I have described above. The software automatically scales the drawing in the Y direction to match the tube outside diameter. This would be easy enough to do "by hand" for a stand alone or integrated DIY tube cutter using your cad software of choice.

This was my test run with my tube cutter setup.


David

[Locust]

Awesome, thanks for the info. I'll look into this more once I've got my machine set up!

[Joe Jones]

Word to the Wise: Do not let PlasmaCam catch you running a stand alone pipe cutter with its own controller box. That is a BIG PlasmaCam No-No!

Joe

[adbuch]

We've been over this before. I have Plasmacam's blessing on this one.
David

[Joe Jones]

We've been over this before. I have Plasmacam's blessing on this one.
David

That is quite an accomplishment!

Joe

[adbuch]

As I told you previously, I was planning on buying a second table just for parts but the Plasmacam rep talked me out of it. He said it would be much more cost effective to simply purchase the parts I needed, and these (including the spare controller) would be considered as an extension to my existing DHC2 table. So they all fall under the one software license for my original DHC2 table. This saved me about $3000 vs. the cost of a new DHC2 (at the time discounted to $7998).

This is much better and more time efficient than tearing down the table every time to set up and use the pipe cutter for an occasional project. I fully expect they would offer the same to anyone who has already purchased the DHC2 with software upgrades and has already purchased the pipe cutter attachment for $1995.

[adbuch]

Awesome, thanks for the info. I'll look into this more once I've got my machine set up!

By the way - Locust - this is what I was making with the tube cutter shown in the previous videos. Candle holders.
I created the wood bases from mdf using an Avid CNC router table running on Mach3.

David

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[Locust]

Those look really nice. Is it difficult to remove the cutting slag from the inside after they're cut?

[adbuch]

Those look really nice. Is it difficult to remove the cutting slag from the inside after they're cut?

Thanks! If you get the settings close, there is not that much back side dross. But I did glass bead the insides after cutting as the problem is that some of the molten spray gets stuck to the inside on the opposite side from where the torch is cutting. The next time I cut some, I think I will try spraying anti-spatter spray onto the inside of the tube before cutting.

David

[Joe Jones]

You could try a cylinder hone to remove internal dross.

Joe

[acourtjester]

David you could use the Muriatic acid and water bath to clean those, but I understand some don't like using acid. I don't use it for everything.

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[Locust]

Those look really nice. Is it difficult to remove the cutting slag from the inside after they're cut?

Thanks! If you get the settings close, there is not that much back side dross. But I did glass bead the insides after cutting as the problem is that some of the molten spray gets stuck to the inside on the opposite side from where the torch is cutting. The next time I cut some, I think I will try spraying anti-spatter spray onto the inside of the tube before cutting.

David

Yeah it was the opposite side stuff I was referring to. I bet anti-spatter would go a long way towards clean up.

[Locust]

With my budget of about $10k I didn't find a 5x10 table

[Joe Jones]

With my budget of about $10k I didn't find a 5x10 table

You can find used Samson 510 tables for a good deal.

Joe

[cncrob]

I think the answer to your question depends on the plan you have regarding the business.
It's important to strike a balance between your current needs and future growth potential.

While a 2x2 table might be too small for your requirements, jumping straight to a 4x8 table might not be necessary unless you anticipate consistently working on large-scale projects.
But if you are not sure about your future projects, but you have the budget for 4x8 table, I would suggest you to go for this option.

A 4x8 table can handle all the tasks that a 2x2 table can do, and much more, while a 2x2 can't handle the tasks that a 4x8 does.

So the answer is in your business plan. And if you don't have a plan, that's what you should start with, as well as structuring the business, about which you can find more info on bizop.org.

[Joe Jones]

In my experience, when it comes to plasma tables, the brand doesn't make a huge difference in terms of cutting quality. Whether it's a PlasmaCam or another brand, if you're using a Hypertherm 45XP, you'll get the same results. Of course, some tables may have better construction or use higher-quality components, so that's worth considering.

EXACTLY!

Joe

[Joe Jones]

Ever since I discovered the online auction sites, I am really reluctant to by anything "new" because of the fantastic deals that I can find online.

Joe

[Joe Jones]

For $10K all in including plasma cutter/drier/computer - Plasmacam or Sampson is out of reach.
David

New, yes.

Joe