Can I afford a beveling cutting head? 5 axis?

[adbuch]

Or if money is no object, then perhaps a turn-key rotary table like this one.

https://www.arc-zone.com/light-duty-pos ... 2YQAvD_BwE

pro fab.jpg

[weldersandblaster]

Thank you David. I began writing you, but paused until I learn a wee bit more. I'm momentarily researching software because I have questions. Some of them I will ask you. Such as what did you do your drawing in? And what beginner level programs do you recommend I learn, since for my needs, I'm not jumping in deep compared to your skills.

Can you convert and send me those pictures in black and white? What file extension do they have? So I can know how to import them, perhaps?

[adbuch]

Can you convert and send me those pictures in black and white? What file extension do they have? So I can know how to import them, perhaps?

Chris - specifically which pictures are you asking to be converted? Any of the drawings I have posted to this thread are screen shots in jpeg format. The 3D images are from solid models created with Fusion 360, the drawing of the shark tooth with dimensions I did with Bricscad, and the remainder of them were created using Design Edge.

Fusion 360 is free for hobbyists. You can download it here.
https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal

Bricscad is sort of an advanced version of AutoCad. The cost for a perpetual license was around $5400 last time I checked.

Plasmacam Design Edge is normally supplied with the Plasmacam cnc plasma tables. I believe the current price for a single seat license is around $3000.

CorelDraw is another popular drawing program. I an using CorelDraw 2020, and I purchased a perpetual license on Amazon for $109 about a year ago.
Here is the link.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08B1 ... UTF8&psc=1

Inkscape is very popular, free, and pretty easy to use for simple drawing or auto tracing.
https://inkscape.org/release/inkscape-1.2.1/

LightBurn is pretty handy for converting svg to dxf and visa versa. It is also a drawing program with many features. The cost is around $65 for a perpetual license.
https://lightburnsoftware.com/pages/tri ... re-you-buy


David

[adbuch]

And what beginner level programs do you recommend I learn, since for my needs ........

If you are planning to buy one of the Langmuir tables - Crossfire or Crossfire Pro - I would recommend learning Fusion 360. It is free for hobbyists, pretty easy to use, and will do everything you need as far as drawing the part, creating the solid model, creating your cut paths (tool paths), and post processing to create the g-code you will send to the FireControl control software to cut parts with your Crossfire table.

You can import dxf files (created with other drawing software) to Fusion 360 and use them for creating your cut paths and g-code. Langmuir has an excellent set of Fusion 360 instructional/tutorial videos linked to below.

https://www.langmuirsystems.com/software/fusion

I showed an example of creating a part/cut paths/g-code using Fusion 360 in a previous thread here.

https://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic. ... 94#p216694

Inkscape is another free drawing program, but I would say it more useful for creating artistic pieces than dimensional mechanical parts - although it can be used for that as well. Inkscape can save drawings in dxf or svg formats which can be imported to Fusion 360 for creating cut paths/g-code, although I expect that most folks use Sheetcam for creating their cut paths/g-code from dxf or svg files.

If you are just getting started, then I would recommend focusing your attention on a single program first - and for your purposes Fusion 360 is I think the best way to go for you.

[adbuch]

Here is a summary of the Fusion 360 steps required to create the drawing for the 4" diameter disc, create cut paths, and post process to create g-code.

circle 1.jpg

circle 2.jpg

circle 3.jpg

circle 4.jpg

circle 5.jpg

[adbuch]

Here is another method for creating a drawing of your shark tooth pattern. You can draw or trace your part onto a sheet or white paper, take a photo with your phone camera, save to your computer and import the photo to Inkscape. Then use Inkscape to digitally trace your part to create a dxf file for your part. You will need at least one dimension from your original hand tracing so you can scale your Inkscape drawing to the correct size. Then you can save your drawing as a dxf file for later use in another program for creating cut paths.
David

20221024_223443.jpg

paper trace 1.jpg

paper trace 2.jpg

paper trace 3.jpg

paper trace 4.jpg

paper trace 5.jpg

paper trace 6.jpg

paper trace 7.jpg

[weldersandblaster]

And what beginner level programs do you recommend I learn, since for my needs ........

If you are planning to buy one of the Langmuir tables - Crossfire or Crossfire Pro - I would recommend learning Fusion 360. It is free for hobbyists, pretty easy to use, and will do everything you need as far as drawing the part, creating the solid model, creating your cut paths (tool paths), and post processing to create the g-code you will send to the FireControl control software to cut parts with your Crossfire table.

You can import dxf files (created with other drawing software) to Fusion 360 and use them for creating your cut paths and g-code. Langmuir has an excellent set of Fusion 360 instructional/tutorial videos linked to below.

https://www.langmuirsystems.com/software/fusion

I showed an example of creating a part/cut paths/g-code using Fusion 360 in a previous thread here.

https://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic. ... 94#p216694


If you are just getting started, then I would recommend focusing your attention on a single program first - and for your purposes Fusion 360 is I think the best way to go for you.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
I am planning on buying a Crossfire. I can't see that I need more than that for my simple needs.
Your software answers were exactly what I was looking for. I can start learning Fusion 360 before the table is even paid for as learning that will take longer than assembling the table.

These were the drawings I would like in DXF. Once I have an original shape, I can save as, and redimension the sizes from there if needs change.

I was amazed at how well you comprehended my hopes of merging the sharks tooth into the circle. I could semi see it in my head, but I feared my vision and description to you would not be clear enough to make sense to you. You grasp things so well. I'm honored to meet you.

I would have gotten there, maybe 3 days later and 8 hours worth of drawing experiments. And then my drawing would be on paper. Then I would have had the dilemma of magically converting paper into DXF. You are a Godsend.

I watched some of your slideshows on your website of your restoration projects. You are repeatedly amazing me. It's a shame you live so far away from me. I would love to meet you in person.

I will maybe have to build my own rotary mechanism, as money is not abundant in the early stages of a new start up. Once I see what type of customer base I have to work with, and their interest level, then I could justify taking money away from my other ventures and investing some of it into this one. But since this venture is experimental, I'm not willing to invest more than I can afford to throw away without crying.

I'm thinking a 12v motor with a 2" long shaft of maybe .25" diameter. I will take some 1" round stock about 4" long and drill a .25 hole in one end about 1" deep, so it can slide over the shaft and be glued in place. The other end of the 1" round stock, I will drill and tap to hold a bolt so I can quickly screw on the round plasma cut pieces. Little 12v motors are abundant and cheap and small.

I will use a PWM voltage controller to control the speed. I will accurately measure the input voltage as a reference to my rotational speed. Once I find the proper speed that works well, I will know what voltage caused that RPM. From then on, maintaining proper voltage/speed should be easy. Measuring voltage in .100ths is easy.

I'm wondering how else I could accurately measure the RPM for good repeatability? There are a lot of accurate sensors that are available cheap, if you're measuring above 5 or ten RPM. But I think it might be a challenge trying to measure between 2.2 RPM's and 2.8 RPMs. But I have not researched that category yet. And if that challenge is as large as I suspect, trusty old voltage measurements might be accurate enough, since my rotating resistance is not likely to change much over the course of time. And it's easy to tweak as I learn what cut characteristics mean to slow, or too fast.



Thank you for the precious time you are sharing with me.
Chris

[adbuch]

I have added more information about the software in one of my earlier posts (edited). Fusion 360, Bricscad, Design Edge, CorelDraw, LightBurn, Inkscape, etc. So go up to the top of the page and take a look if you like.

[weldersandblaster]

Thank you David for inspiring me how to import a picture from paper into dxf.

But instead of tracing one sharks tooth from paper, I would rather trace your drawing of the 4 of them inside one circle. And I'm wondering if I want to import it into Vector, so I can easily add nodes and change the radius of the weld curve as adjustments maybe necessary. Does fusion 360 have vectoring or nodes so I can change weld radius?

I'm wondering, change 1 weld radius, copy it, paste it, alter the transparency, and move it above your drawing until the outside curve matches, and paste 4 of them back into your circle?

I've never done this before, so I am not sure if my suspicion has any merit or not. I'm mostly just wondering aloud.

I agree. In the early stages, I want to focus on learning one program until I'm quite comfortable with it. Then maybe I learn others. So 360 it is.

[adbuch]

I was just showing you a quick method to get your basic shape into the computer while you are getting started. Once you have some experience with your new drawing program, you can do this all from within the program. Or you can still import your photo for reference. You only need one file for a single shark tooth. Then it is a simple matter to copy it in your drawing program and position around the 4 inch circle.

Once you have your basic profile for the beveled part (the circular portion of your "pie cut" piece) then the only thing that will change is the diameter of the circular piece you are welding these to. This will be simple enough to change in Fusion 360 or Inkscape (your free programs).

[weldersandblaster]

Can you convert and send me those pictures in black and white? What file extension do they have? So I can know how to import them, perhaps?

Chris - specifically which pictures are you asking to be converted? Any of the drawings I have posted to this thread are screen shots in jpeg format. The 3D images are from solid models created with Fusion 360, the drawing of the shark tooth with dimensions I did with Bricscad, and the remainder of them were created using Design Edge.

Fusion 360 is free for hobbyists. You can download it here.
https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal

Bricscad is sort of an advanced version of AutoCad. The cost for a perpetual license was around $5400 last time I checked.

Plasmacam Design Edge is normally supplied with the Plasmacam cnc plasma tables. I believe the current price for a single seat license is around $3000.

CorelDraw is another popular drawing program. I an using CorelDraw 2020, and I purchased a perpetual license on Amazon for $109 about a year ago.
Here is the link.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08B1 ... UTF8&psc=1

Inkscape is very popular, free, and pretty easy to use for simple drawing or auto tracing.
https://inkscape.org/release/inkscape-1.2.1/

LightBurn is pretty handy for converting svg to dxf and visa versa. It is also a drawing program with many features. The cost is around $65 for a perpetual license.
https://lightburnsoftware.com/pages/tri ... re-you-buy


David

I will check these out.

CorelDraw is another popular drawing program. I an using CorelDraw 2020, and I purchased a perpetual license on Amazon for $109 about a year ago. Here is the link.
... UTF8&psc=1
Inkscape is very popular, free, and pretty easy to use for simple drawing or auto tracing.
https://inkscape.org/release/inkscape-1.2.1/
LightBurn is pretty handy for converting svg to dxf and visa versa. It is also a drawing program with many features. The cost is around $65 for a perpetual license. https://lightburnsoftware.com/pages/tri ... re-you-buy

https://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic. ... 94#p216694

Thank you. I will in depth evaluate all these. For me, it is not daunting as it is for others, but just time-consuming. Luckily, I love learning software and am good at it, and have no family that wants my time. And I hate watching TV, so learning is my form of entertainment.

[adbuch]

There is also a free nesting program that you can use to create multiple copies for cutting on a single sheet.
https://deepnest.io/

[weldersandblaster]

These were the pictures I wanted to be converted.

[weldersandblaster]

I have saved every link you gave me regarding software and their descriptions. Do not fear you are wasting your time with me. I will probably vet them better than anyone you know.

[weldersandblaster]

I have saved every link you gave me regarding software and their descriptions. Do not fear you are wasting your time with me. I will probably vet them better than anyone you know.

It just might take me a month or 3.

[adbuch]

Nested discs - qty. 25 - 4 inch od x 0.5 inch id hole.dxf

Nested discs - qty. 25 - 4 inch od x 0.5 inch id hole.dxf image.jpg

[adbuch]

4 inch disc with 4 shark teeth.dxf

4 inch disc with 4 shark teeth.dxf image.jpg

[adbuch]

Once you are up and running with Fusion 360, you can quite easily create your 4" disc with 0.5" center hold, create a simple rectangular nest, and go ahead and create your cut paths and g-code. I would focus your immediate attention on learning Fusion 360 (in light of your impending Langmuir purchase) and put the other programs on the "back burner".

Here is how to create an array of your 4" discs, create cut paths, and post g-code with Fusion 360.

David

create circle 1.jpg

create circle 2.jpg

create circle 3.jpg

create circle 4.jpg

create circle 5.jpg

[adbuch]

create circle 6.jpg

create circle 7.jpg

create circle 8.jpg

create circle 9.jpg

create circle 10.jpg

create circle 11.jpg

create circle 12.jpg

[adbuch]

create circle 13.jpg

create circle 14.jpg

create circle 15.jpg

create circle 16.jpg

create circle 17.jpg

[adbuch]

create circle 18.jpg

create circle 19.jpg

create circle 20.jpg

create circle 21.jpg

create circle 22.jpg

[Plasma-art]

Save to your computer and import the photo to Inkscape. Then use Inkscape to digitally trace your part to create a dxf file for your part.

Alternatively you can import the picture into fusion 360 as a canvas, scale it and do a manual trace.
This can also work with 3d design's as long as you have a 3 view but that's pretty advanced.

[adbuch]

Save to your computer and import the photo to Inkscape. Then use Inkscape to digitally trace your part to create a dxf file for your part.

Alternatively you can import the picture into fusion 360 as a canvas, scale it and do a manual trace.
This can also work with 3d design's as long as you have a 3 view but that's pretty advanced.

I have tried tracing with Fusion 360 in the past. I don't think it has the flexibility of Inkscape. It works, but no node editing so editing curved lines I have found to be problematic. Perhaps you have some techniques you could share here to enlighten me.
Thanks,
David

[weldersandblaster]

Save to your computer and import the photo to Inkscape. Then use Inkscape to digitally trace your part to create a dxf file for your part.

Alternatively you can import the picture into fusion 360 as a canvas, scale it and do a manual trace.
This can also work with 3d design's as long as you have a 3 view but that's pretty advanced.

I have tried tracing with Fusion 360 in the past. I don't think it has the flexibility of Inkscape. It works, but no node editing so editing curved lines I have found to be problematic. Perhaps you have some techniques you could share here to enlighten me.
Thanks,
David

Hi David.
I may use inkscape just for its tracing features. I cant compare it to anything else, but I have traced using Vinyl Master Pro for my cnc vinyl cutter. Once I learned how, which I would need brushing up on because its been a while, it took me only 3 minutes to trace and convert a JPG into a vector for cutting. From that vector, I believe it's as simple as save as, to get a DFX. Can a DFX go straight into FireControl? Or must I have some other CAM between them?

I'm just now realizing the difference between CAD and Cam. Since Vinyl Master did it all seamlessly, I never comprehended CAM.

I have spent 10 hours today studying the software options. I was excited about F360, but after learning I can't save the files on my hard drive, meaning I don't own them, and their eco system of proprietary file formats, strongly restricting import and especially export, I am highly bothered with them. They suck me in, and get me chained to them, and then they quit the free version? And (i mght be wrong)
i can't run Crossfire unless F360 has a internet connection. Because it's not on my hard drive.

Is it as bad as I am fearing? Or am I over playing things in my mind?

I'm looking at SheetCam but am having a hard time finding any good tutorials on them. Do you know of any?

Thank you for converting those drawings for me. I will get around to downloading them to my HD soon.

You've got me thinking of Corel Draw, and owning it for vector drawings. Maybe a little slower, a little more cumbersome, but I'm not locked into subscription, or stuck depending on the cloud (my shop does not have internet), or dependent upon proprietary formats.

You yourself have said you still use Auto Cad 14 and love it for many things. You have me strongly thinking Corel and SheetCam.
I think I will also explore VinylMaster further. I only learned enough to make signs for my heavy equipment because I didn't want to be dependent upon the local sign shop contractors and them controlling my schedule.
You have said you use VinylMaster. Could we... Sometimes I get dangerous when I begin speculating. But I have occasionally ended up with some spectacular results that once began with speculating. Sometimes it was nothing but trouble.

Even SheetCams own website has no tutorials or study videos. And YouTube is skinny on them, unless I'm missing something. I may print their manual. What learning material are you aware of for SheetCam? How well do you know VinylMaster?

[Plasma-art]

I was excited about F360, but after learning I can't save the files on my hard drive, meaning I don't own them, and their eco system of proprietary file formats, strongly restricting import and especially export, I am highly bothered with them. They suck me in, and get me chained to them, and then they quit the free version? And (i mght be wrong)
i can't run Crossfire unless F360 has a internet connection. Because it's not on my hard drive.

Is it as bad as I am fearing? Or am I over playing things in my mind?

Having the cloud storage isn't a big issue, i even like it because I can log in on my laptop or computer and have the files there and ready to go.
Exporting DXF, .STL, .ST(E)P files is easy with fusion and people with solidworks for example can just open them.
The laser cutting company has no trouble opening and working with the files I send them made with the free fusion package and they use solidworks.
So restrictions on import and export? Yes but no, the free version has some limitations (and work arounds) but that's to be expected for a package as fusion.

The free package already has restrictions in place otherwise there would be no need to subscribe to get the unlocked and full version.
In the past it was the complete package but they decided to restrict some things, so I don't they are going to quit the free version.

The free version however is not meant for businesses, keep that in mind.