Customer contract question

[elkriverfab]

Hey everybody, I just had a question regarding how you handle customer contracts for custom work.

It seems like lately I have had a handful of crazy customers causing me grief to say the least.

I have had several jobs doing a few custom pieces and during each one the customer has changed direction completely.

One minute I was building something for one customers father and then his father past during the build, leaving me with materials and work time involved. Than he decided to have me build something for his mother (started job) and the next day he changed his mind again.

Then he wanted me to build something for his son-in law and there we are.

The problem is, I took a deposit for the first job (his fathers) and this has been holding me hostage.
After he changed his mind the first time, I had purchased materials and of coarse labor for the first job.

Sad his father past for sure but then the second job (bust) and now his son-in-law.

He once again is causing me problems and will drop his son-n laws off tomorrow and ditch this fool!

My question to you guys who have had any experience in what I am dealing with, how do you write your contracts so this doesn't happen.

I pride myself in doing quality work and on time but I cant be held hostage on funds taken up front for custom work or any work for that matter.

As a matter of fact, last month I took half up front on a job and it paid off because the customer couldn't pay for it when it was finished.
Had it setting in my shop for a month until he emailed me saying he was ready for it.

I just want to be able to cover my a** from now on know matter what!

The guy has been telling me if I don't work with all of his crazy issues he was going to tell the local news company I took funds from him and never came through. The funds were from him for his fathers job.

He was going to say I take money from old sick people, the news loves those kinds of stories

Now I understand all of my emails with him would show what happened and would show he had a screw loose but as most know the local news companies don't care about that, they just love starting problems.

I am a small business and I cant afford that kind of problem.

This is really the first nightmare I have had with someone but it was enough for me.

So please........... Some insight on how to write up contracts to keep this from happening would be wonderful.

Thanks.

[oldsoulmetal]

just my opinion but you contract was to his father's project. i would of finished the original piece and allowed them to pick it up . Most of my contracts state unpicked up items will be come mine after 90 days of completion. at that point i mail a certified letter to the orignal contacts house stating my polite intentions to end the storage of their property. (in other words pick it up or i sell it for scrap). besides you were contracted for that item the funds you took were for that item. if he wants to cancel the order and receive a discount for the material on a new order so be it. Second if the son wants to pull the old news channel act remind him it is a double edge sword. read headlines: Family tries to force local buissness to donate free labor. most news channels investigate before they run a story. they dont want a lawsuit. just my two cents.

[elkriverfab]

Oldsoulmetal,

I agree with you.

During the project his father passed away.
I had about two weeks worth of work left on it.

Right after he passed the guy calls me wanting a full refund.
I was pissed.

His deposit covered materials including electric actuators and all sorts of stuff.
Not including labor.

The next day he tells me he is going to notify the news company and where I live, they love this kind of stuff.
At least three stories a night X seven days = 21 stories a week. It is ridiculous and they never let the other side explain!

So, It was not worth that.

With all the posts here on designs, files, how to's and all that I wanted to see how others did their contracts and deal with this when it comes up.

The funny thing is... the ones who want to cause trouble and give you a hard time, know how to do it well.
I am sure he has done this to many others over the years.

I always choose to do the right thing, fair business and work with people. Not take advantage of them or a situation.

Oh well, live and learn that's what it's about.

The only thing keeping a job from going south sometimes is you letting them get a foot hold. No more

Most customers are great but now and then you get a idiot.

Thanks.

[bogger44]

Thee is always going to be someone that will be a retard (more than one). Someone will give you a bad name no matter how hard you bend over for them. I have a quote sheet I fill out with what's agreed on in it.

I made a set of rims for a guy at half cost of others to get business and my name out there, he was the cheepest bastard and a pain in the ass and did'nt care what a deal he is getting. Quote, get a deposit and if they change thier mind that's extra. I've learned don't do ANYTHING for free.

[Dennis]

Don't let the news thing worry you he is just tring to get his money back... They will not put anything up on the news before they do there research .. He is just trying to scare you into getting his money back, tell him you will eather complete the job or he can piss off.

[MQUICK]

Tell him to please call the news company. That will save you the time from you calling them. You would love to get his complaint on record. That way you will have evidence for court. They just love false statements.

On more of a business point. Each order was it's own order. Each one should be started and finished/canceled/completed. One order has nothing to do with the other order, just the same customer. Yea the customer is a pain but you need to be more complete with your paperwork. As long as it cost him nothing to keep changing things, he will. Only you let it drag out. That's why they call it the school of hard knocks. I bet you will not let it happen again. (I hope)

[NDN Tom]

I make a cut pattern of the job, and print it out twice. Then I write, One Eagle ( goat, cat , or farm scene) measuring appx 47 tall and 32 wide made from 16 ga steel. This will be bare metal (or) painted. Total cost will be $326... $ XXX is due before the job you see above starts, and the balance due upon completion and before leaving my shop. Time for final payment is of the essence once the part is complete and you are notified.. I understand these contract terms, and accept this drawing without further modification or additions. Then we both sign and keep one copy.....
I don't know about a bullet proof contract, but the spirit and scope of intent is damn clear to a judge or news reporter. If I deal with a lawyer or doctor, I do business just like they do. I DO NOT give a price quote.. Please Leave a $500 deposit, and when the job is done, you will receive either a refund of the unused portion...or an additional bill. We cannot guarantee the results, outcome, satisfaction or final cost of any work performed. I know you will not mind signing this fair and just legal contract, that closely mirrors your own. RIGHT ??

[pony]

Contracts are useful, but in this instance it would not have made any difference. Demanding he stick to the original plan with a piece of paper would not prevent him crying foul to the scandal rags.

On face value the job seems to be more trouble than it is worth. I have a couple of small businesses, and sometimes I just drop the client, regardless as to how much I think I need the work. I'm always very polite about it and never try to explain why (these people only see their own selfish gains and are able to convince themselves they are right, any discussion otherwise just fuels their twisted sense of what is right and what is wrong). I have had to learn when to cut my losses.
He can bad mouth you (without justification) if you hold him to the original verbal contract, and if that is important to you then you need to do what is right for you. It is a bad business relationship you have with that guy, and its based on his unreasonable expectations, demands, and threats.
If it were me I would give him a full refund and decline any of his future requests. Of course you will eat the costs, but you may end up eating more if this continues. Perhaps you can use the material for something different and recoup some if not all your expenses. You don't have to make a point about it to him, sometimes it is greater to be the better man.
Some people are just plain jerks and will not ever see reason. Its better to avoid those people. A more rewarding job could just be around the corner.

[elkriverfab]

Thanks everybody for your suggestions, I will look out for the unexpected for sure from now on.
To tell you the truth, I have been in the service business for over 15 years and have run across every kind of customer you can imagine.

My way of thinking is, they are all crazy and the ones who end up normal is a plus.
You can never figure out what is in someones head or why they are how they are.

This guy was just great at first and very nice.
After his father passed he just went on a crazy trip.

I understand loosing a parent at any age is not fun. The customer I have been dealing with is in his 60's
His father was much older than that.

He started flipping back in forth like a light switch. Nice, nasty, nice, nasty for no reason.

I too agree with pony, I don't think any contract or paper would have helped with this guy.

He started getting strange and emailing me things like "how is your Christmas going, I would like to help with your gifts and to make you Christmas good for you and your family"

No way. I know better than that. Business is business and that is crossing the line for sure.

One time he tried to pay for my gas to his location, again......No way!

The next emails were threats, just plain out of it.

So, tonight I dropped off the final project at his house and found his entire family there for the holidays.
Great for me, I literally laid down the law in front of his family explaining how I will not be toyed with, threatened or pushed around like that.

I also gave his family a stack of email copy's for them to look over with their Christmas cheer!
I think it really gave them an idea of how he does business.

I also made him sign off on a final satisfactory of job completed form.

His son-in-law, two sons, wife, daughter and mother were there.
I dropped of a perfect piece of work with a smile and said "Merry Christmas to all"

As I walked out he tried to get me to start another project for him, can you believe that????????

I will never do this again and it wasn't even a real big job in the first place!
Dealing with customers like this will turn you into a hard ass but for good reason.

I know many people who would have taken his offers for gas and everything else but not me, I think that is setting yourself up for a bad deal! Beware, beware, beware......Take only what you worked for, nothing more.

Years ago I managed a company and had an employee take gifts and it ended very bad for him. Unfortunately people will set you up for a fall before you even know what they are thinking.

Something very innocent can turn bad in a hurry.

Well, thanks for all the advice I think everyone has their limit and mine was pushed weeks ago.
There is nothing like venting in a professional way and keeping your cool.

I am sure his family already knows how he is but I don't think they have ever seen anyone call him out on it.
But in the end, he still got a very nice job and put in his place at the same time.