Torch Height Question

kd7bpk · Post by **kd7bpk** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:17 pm

Hi does anybody have any suggestions for me please? I have a torchmate 2x4 with no avhc whenever I cut a part set my torch height and then at some point in the part the torch ends up rubbing on the material dragging it therefore screwing the whole part. Any suggestions what I'm doing wrong? What's a good torch height 40amp 14 and 12 ga material? Thanks in advance

gamble · Post by **gamble** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:52 pm

I have this issue a LOT since I don't have height control as well. What I can tell you is to keep your slats clean, if there is a bow in your material make the highest spot facing up. I used to use a piece of 14g as a shim to line up my torch. Now I just eyeball everything. I also know where my high spots are on my table so I try to work around them until I can scrap up enough cash to get new slats.
So usually try to keep my torch 'about' .100 off the material (by eyeballing) and it gets me a decent cut.

Gamelord · Post by **Gamelord** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:06 pm

As mentioned above, your slats will get gunk on them over time and create high spots so you just have to eyeball where the high spots are and "wing it". The other problem is heat warpage, no matter what you do, eventually you will get a piece that will warp. This is the reason a THC is so valuable. I can't see using a table without one. Over time as you ruin pieces, tips, nozzles and possible damage your torch, a THC will pay for itself. Not to mention the time you save by being able to set the table to run and walk away and do something else while it cuts.

gamble · Post by **gamble** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:12 pm

Gamelord wrote:Not to mention the time you save by being able to set the table to run and walk away and do something else while it cuts.

I've always wondered that. Can you really just walk away? What if a piece falls and the torch cuts close to it and collides?
I always thought height control wasn't needed on a 2x2 table, but the more and more I use the table the more I see it could be useful. I just don't want to spend $3k to find out it wasn't worth every dime.

Post by **acourtjester** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:17 pm

Being a heavy duty DIY type I don't understand why you have not asked for help to adapt a THC to your table???
I understand that is a lot of money to buy theirs but it should not cost that much to adapt one.

Gamelord · Post by **Gamelord** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:18 pm

It depends on what you are making. If the pieces you are cutting are small and intricate then you may have to stay and watch it. When I am cutting out larger brackets I can usually nest a 5x10 sheet, start it and then go for lunch with no problems at all. It depends on how the parts/projects will sit on the slats and what small parts are being cut.

As far as THC, I wouldn't purchase a table without one and can't understand why someone would sell one without one...other than to try and get the price down.

I guess it also comes down to how much you are using your table. If you are running it 6-8 hours a day, thats one thing but if you only use it 1-2 hours a week for personal projects and are able to sit around babysitting the machine while it cuts then you may not need a THC.

Maadman · Post by **Maadman** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:28 am

I kept hearing how the AVHC is so great, so I bought one. It was a big expense for me, but seemed to be worth it from all the reports I heard. Well, I need some help to make it that wonderful! I have been trying to get the darn thing to work for over 6 months now, which isn't a lot less than I have been cutting. I have my troubles cutting without it, but not like I have trying to cut with it. I have been on the phone with Torchmate for hours trying this and that. Well, each time it doesn't work and I have schedules to keep so I give up for a while. I really want it to work, too much money to just sit and if the benefits are what they say I would love to have it working!
I have the 2x4 Torchmate setup with the Thermal Dynamics A40 plasma cutter. I have a 40 amp tip with the amp set at 45 on the cutter. Every time I turn on the AVHC and start the program the torch pierces and then just drags. I have set the voltage anywhere from 95 to 125, just trying to get it to work. The 125 was too high and the rest of them reacted the same with the torch dragging and then setting off the breakaway switch. But, if I turn it back to manual, everything is fine.
If anyone has any ideas, I would love to hear them!!

davek0974 · Post by **davek0974** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:17 am

First, i would not run 40A consumables at 45A.

So the torch pierces then piles down into the sheet?

That could be caused by having no or too short THC delay - you need a delay before the THC takes over, otherwise it senses the pierce which is generally too high a voltage then the system piles down to try and lower it. My delay is 1 second, any less and i get similar issues.

gamble · Post by **gamble** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:04 pm

Maadman wrote:I kept hearing how the AVHC is so great, so I bought one. It was a big expense for me, but seemed to be worth it from all the reports I heard. Well, I need some help to make it that wonderful! I have been trying to get the darn thing to work for over 6 months now, which isn't a lot less than I have been cutting. I have my troubles cutting without it, but not like I have trying to cut with it. I have been on the phone with Torchmate for hours trying this and that. Well, each time it doesn't work and I have schedules to keep so I give up for a while. I really want it to work, too much money to just sit and if the benefits are what they say I would love to have it working!
I have the 2x4 Torchmate setup with the Thermal Dynamics A40 plasma cutter. I have a 40 amp tip with the amp set at 45 on the cutter. Every time I turn on the AVHC and start the program the torch pierces and then just drags. I have set the voltage anywhere from 95 to 125, just trying to get it to work. The 125 was too high and the rest of them reacted the same with the torch dragging and then setting off the breakaway switch. But, if I turn it back to manual, everything is fine.
If anyone has any ideas, I would love to hear them!!

I'd love to hear your thoughts once you get things up and running as far as the before and after.
If it didn't cost me $3k to do it, I'd play around to see if it it was worth it but your right, it's a lot of money to swallow

unfortunately other options just don't seem decent like a $600 thc then sheet cam and mach3 etc etc

Post by **acourtjester** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:01 pm

Here is a start for a Z axis add motor and driver for about $100. Torch mount and floating head assembly are not hard to make.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161839422580?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

davek0974 · Post by **davek0974** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:03 pm

gamble wrote: I'd love to hear your thoughts once you get things up and running as far as the before and after.
If it didn't cost me $3k to do it, I'd play around to see if it it was worth it but your right, it's a lot of money to swallow

unfortunately other options just don't seem decent like a $600 thc then sheet cam and mach3 etc etc

I only paid $700 or so for my THC, it works great, unless you have a $100k table I would not see spending £3k on a THC as possible.

whats wrong with sheet cam and mach3??

Post by **tcaudle** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:21 pm

whats wrong with sheet cam and mach3??

Torchmate hardware will not run with other controller programs (MACH3 LINUX, etc) You cannot just add a third party THC unless it is a full "stand alone" (totally self contained) unit.

davek0974 · Post by **davek0974** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:27 pm

Ahh I see, thanks for that.

Maadman · Post by **Maadman** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:32 pm

Dave K 0964 thank you for the suggestion. Tried to find the THC delay and can't, maybe it is phrased another way. Looked under the start up menu, assuming it would be there. Still couldn't find it. Can you let me know where it is, I want to give your idea a try. The thing is driving me crazy!! My last batch of metal, 14 gauge hot rolled P&O, has just a small cup to it right down the middle. I'm having to follow the torch around with a "wonder bar" to push the metal down. Otherwise it just fizzles out the arc or doesn't cut all the way through. Not a very productive way to cut! Have 2 big shows coming up and trying to build my inventory. Any help would be appreciated!

davek0974 · Post by **davek0974** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:35 am

I am sorry but my response was tied to my only experience of plasma cutting being done by Mach3 / Sheetcam and a self-built table (or two), I have been looking and I see TM uses its own software, a USB connection(?) and the AVHC kit contains a standalone THC plus the floating head hardware and motor etc? i.e. a full THC kit.

The feature I was talking of is likely hidden in the settings?

I also see we have two threads going - Gamble who has no THC and Maadman who has bought one, both on a Torchmate table????

Gets confusing quickly

Gamble - Unless you can gain access to the system, I think you will have to bite that bullet, or rip the system out and replace it all with Mach and sheet cam etc.

Maadman · Post by **Maadman** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:40 am

Don't apologize! Any help is great. I will call Torchmate in the morning and find how to access this. Can't continue to cut this way, it's taking me over twice as long to cut a piece because I have to keep jumping back to go over cuts that didn't cut through all the way. Needless to say, I end up scrapping some of my pieces too. And the dross is worse so I end up spending more valuable time with the angle grinder - not fun!!
You are right, I should have started a new thread, will do that next time.
Thank you again for your idea.

BTW - Torchmate is the one who told me to run the 40 amp tip at 45. I guess they think that you can go 5 under or over the amperage. Not sure I'm convinced it has done any good, going to change it back.

gamble · Post by **gamble** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:49 am

davek0974 wrote: Gamble - Unless you can gain access to the system, I think you will have to bite that bullet, or rip the system out and replace it all with Mach and sheet cam etc.

Pretty much. I'm trying to avoid converting it to something else as I like the torchmate software. Although to be fair I have never used sheetcam or mach3. Not even sure of the which software does what. Plus the new height control comes with accumove2. So it gives added features as well.

davek0974 · Post by **davek0974** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:52 am

Is a Torchmate system all-in-one as in you load graphics direct on to it and go from there??

In my system, which is pretty average at the lower end of the chain, I load my graphics into SheetCam which allows me to set parameters - speeds, pierce & cut heights etc and generates the G-code file. Mach3 then loads the G-code and uses it to run the machine. Its most likely a lot more involved than your system but I do get full control of all parameters and can add whatever THC I fancy.

Post by **acourtjester** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:55 am

Well you seem to understand your dilemma you either spend money for the upgrade which Maadman says he has problems with. Or you convert and spend money to buy new software and parts to get you working better. This is something only you can make as it is your money. I would PM maadman to see what his problems are and if they can be corrected and it means spending more money to do that. Learning SheetCam and Mach is not that hard as you understand what you are trying to do as a result (cutting parts). If you are running a business it is a business expense if this is a hobby that makes it harder to recoup your money. There is plenty of help here to learn the software it seems you are not happy staying where you are now. There will be hic cups with either but there is more help with Mach and SheetCam then with Torchmate.

Gamelord · Post by **Gamelord** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:32 pm

I am not familiar with the 2x2 tables and not sure if they use the same setup as mine, but my Torchmate works flawlessly. the THC runs great, cuts are great and it did take me a while to get it dialed in but once dialed in, I haven't ahd to adjust it more than a small nudge here and there depending on the weather and type of steel.

I would get with Torchmate and figure it out. It works - unless your system is different than mine which I don't think it is.

vmax549 · Post by **vmax549** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:49 pm

Torchmate uses a different type of delay . It does not start when the torch fires it starts when teh Z touches off. That mean the total delay time is much greater normally around 2.5-3 secs. When the TM sytem is working and dialed in it works very well and teh total package is easy to use ONCE you learn how it works.

IF you wanted to upgrade I would suggest talking to FlashCut as torchmate no longer uses the old Flashcut system and Flashcut now offers a Plasma system. It may be a plug and go type thing for them.

It will only cost you a phone call to find out.

You only other option is to learn how the system works and fix it yourself. That can be done as well.

(;-) TP

Post by **acourtjester** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:44 pm

looks like more helpful info is coming along
Always better to have options to solve a problem

BensPlasmaAu · Post by **BensPlasmaAu** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:26 am

acourtjester wrote:Here is a start for a Z axis add motor and driver for about $100. Torch mount and floating head assembly are not hard to make.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161839422580?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

This is the z axis I am using. Made my own mounting plate up for it and added a HIWIN HGR25 x 100mm section and carriage with a stop and a microswitch for my floating head and it works pretty damn good. I have a poxy way of mounting the stepper to the top (machined spacers) instead of a nicely machine block of ally, but again, it works pretty good.

Post by **acourtjester** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:10 am

Here is a simple floating head assembly I just finished.

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