Working with HVAC company

[MidAmericaIron]

I just purchased a Vicon 5'x10' used machine with a Hypertherm Powermax 1000. I had a small HVAC company approach me about working with them to cut their duct work for them. What do you all think would be the best way to do it, and how should I charge them? I do this part time (weekend mornings and a couple of nights during the week). They tell me that most of the time I could keep up with them, but If they get a big job they don't think I could keep up. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[rdj357]

I had an HVAC company for 20 years. I can tell you when we got the plasma for our shop it was wonderful. We could cut out and bend up fittings for a 5-6 system job in a day (not insulated or assembled) and this compared to a full day of layout by hand!!

Will you be using the Vicon software to layout the fittings? I only have a couple concerns that I think of because of our workflow and experiences.

Fitting input takes quite awhile and then you have to be sure all the paramaters are right or to them you're just cutting scrap metal.... If they're providing a detailed list of fittings and paramaters based on what the software needs it might be easier?

Do you have something for labeling? We cut lots of fittings and our Design2Fab software exported labels to Nestmaster where the parts were nested. Vicon probably has something similar and it'll be a necessity for assembly. Stickers must be put on the proper piece with the proper orietation for assembly to work out without it taking as long as manual layout.

Ventilation, galvenized fumes are nasty nasty nasty, they'll make you sick. Don't cut it until and unless your ventilation system is working as it should.

Now all that said, you should be saving a full day for an experienced sheetmetal worker every 20-30 fittings so that's directly worth $10-15 per fitting. There is also the factor of how hard a qualified sheetmetal journeyman is to find at all and the other associated costs of having the employee that they wouldn't need (insurance, unbillable time, benefits, etc.) and you'll have to determine what your time is worth and how to bill but hopefully some of this helps.

[MidAmericaIron]

rdj,

Thanks for the input! I will be using the Vicon sotware. From my perspective it looks pretty straight forward as far as input for whatever fitting the company wants. They have pictures of the fitting and you basically just go around the fitting inputting the dimensions. I was messing around with it yesterday and it even told me when I had a dimension that wouldn't work.

[rdj357]

Good! I've never used the Vicon so good to hear it's fairly user friendly.

Here's a for instance warning:

They want a rectangular transition that is 20 x 22 on the bottom, 18x14 on the top, 14" long, flat on the left and flat on the back.

There are lots of ways to mess that up both in cutting, labeling, and assembling and only one right way. All of the wrong ways lead to unusable wasted scrap. Trust me, I know!

I'd never want to work in an HVAC sheetmetal shop (I could insert a period here and still be true) that doesn't have a plasma for fittings again!

[gamble]

What kinds of stuff do HVAC guys need exactly? My brother does HVAC and he said he forms everything by hand as needed on the job.

[rdj357]

We did a lot of commercial work but we used the plasma for residential smaller stuff too. Things for residential changeouts like offset transitions and furnace bases. For commercial work, we made our own roof curbs, adapter curbs (change from one kind/size roof top unit to another), offsets, size transitions, rectangular elbows both radius and square, and square to round adapters. For kitchen exhaust we made 16 gauge gored elbows, square to rounds, pants (a rectangular double wye that looks like a pair of pants), and curbs. For residential installs we cut and made our own ceiling boots and tee wyes. We made our own starting collars too but had a manual circle and ring shear that we used for that.

Fun stuff... A lot of guys fab duct board stuff onsite but we never liked that product. I've made quick transitions onsite but it's pretty slow and unless you're the owner and you take pride in your work, ask your guys to take the time to do it and it can get a little .... sloppy.

[tnbndr]

rdj357 is correct in stating that there are more ways to screw up a fitting than to get it right.
You need to create some sort of listing sheet for them to input the numbers and you just transfer to the Vicon screen. Unless you are familiar with sheet metal fittings and nomenclature it will all get confusing and create scrap.
If you are doing this part time, my gut is you will not enjoy just cutting up galvanized sheets and applying labels. But good luck if you decide to pursue the venture.

[MidAmericaIron]

I'll be doing the HVAC stuff just to help pay for the table. Hopefully the majority of my work will be stuff I want to do.

[tnbndr]

I'll be doing the HVAC stuff just to help pay for the table. Hopefully the majority of my work will be stuff I want to do.

Let us know how it works out.

[_Ogre]

What kinds of stuff do HVAC guys need exactly? My brother does HVAC and he said he forms everything by hand as needed on the job.

chances are your brother uses insulation board or only round duct and flex
i worked for a hvac shop in the early 80s when they bought a plasma table, it really sped up the fab shop
straight duct is just notching, bending and edge work, nothing that goes on a plasma table
transitions, offsets, angled transitions and plenums is where the plasma table shines

we did a lot of big industrial and specialty work, laying out a pie cut, 36'' round 90* is almost impossible by hand
they eventually went to buying rolls of galv sheet metal with a 50 foot straightener before the plasma table

[srp]

Sounds like you might be setting up your new competition. Even a one man shop needs a table to be successful. It won't take them long to figure out that it would be beneficial for them to be doing it themselves - especially if they can't get the parts when they need them.